who ranks higher ATG James Toney.... Bernard Hopkins

[krazyx19]

Toney has ATG talent but B-hop has ATG legacy.

[713832281]

hopkins. no doubt.

[Brother Jay]

Let's just gloss over Bhop post 2006, that's a great way to make your argument....

You'd have to gloss over BHOP 1988-2001 to make YOUR argument ....

So what's it going to be?

Defending a one single vacant IBF belt for 6 years is not greatness. BHOP didn't break Monzon's record because Monzon was THEE recognized champion at 160lbs. Hopkins was 1/3 of the champion at 160lbs. The feat is hardly the same.

As I said, BHOP deserves tremendous applause for what he's done since facing Taylor. That said, he's benefiting from the Plan B "He's an old guy who's still winning" excuse.

The risks he's taking now should have been taken over 16 years ago. Now when he loses no one holds it against him because of his age. Its a crutch. Its exactly like when Pacquiao stipulates that WWs meet him at catchweights. No one faults him because "he so small". That's bull****.

Real ATGs don't need **** like that. They don't ask for special considerations. They don't play that Plan B ****.

Hopkins initially tried to make a legacy by defending his vacant IBF title. It was a title not a championship because he didn't beat a champion for it. When he realized that his legacy was weak, he tried to strengthen his legacy by fighting WWs who were willing to come up and challenge him. That was cute, but real fans knew that Tito and DLH weren't going to beat BHOP.

Then, BHOP let all of the momentum from those wins over Tito and DLH fade way. He then picked up the pace again in 2006 by fighting and losing to Taylor. He IMO lost to Wright as well. He also lost to Calzaghe.

So, the man basically did **** from 1988-2001. Then beat 2 WWs. Then lost a bunch of fights and then won against Tarver, Pavlik and Pascal and that makes up for 16 years of crap?

BHOP was never P4P#1 for good reason. He really hasn't done anything worth even considering him for that position.

Have you guys watched his fights? Did you guys watch the fight where he was getting the business from Allen and then he managed to let Mills Lane push him out of the ring to get a no contest? That was as bad as Devon Alexander crying about the Bradly headbutt and pawing at the wrong eye.

Mills Lane must be on PEDs! LOL ....




And the Oscar for the best performances where a boxer gets hurled out of the ring by a 120lbs referee goes to:

BERNARD HOPKINS!

[intoccabile]

You'd have to gloss over BHOP 1988-2001 to make YOUR argument ....

So what's it going to be?

Defending a one single vacant IBF belt for 6 years is not greatness. BHOP didn't break Monzon's record because Monzon was THEE recognized champion at 160lbs. Hopkins was 1/3 of the champion at 160lbs. The feat is hardly the same.

As I said, BHOP deserves tremendous applause for what he's done since facing Taylor. That said, he's benefiting from the Plan B "He's an old guy who's still winning" excuse.

The risks he's taking now should have been taken over 16 years ago. Now when he loses no one holds it against him because of his age. Its a crutch. Its exactly like when Pacquiao stipulates that WWs meet him at catchweights. No one faults him because "he so small". That's bull****.

Real ATGs don't need **** like that. They don't ask for special considerations. They don't play that Plan B ****.

Hopkins initially tried to make a legacy by defending his vacant IBF title. It was a title not a championship because he didn't beat a champion for it. When he realized that his legacy was weak, he tried to strengthen his legacy by fighting WWs who were willing to come up and challenge him. That was cute, but real fans knew that Tito and DLH weren't going to beat BHOP.

Then, BHOP let all of the momentum from those wins over Tito and DLH fade way. He then picked up the pace again in 2006 by fighting and losing to Taylor. He IMO lost to Wright as well. He also lost to Calzaghe.

So, the man basically did **** from 1988-2001. Then beat 2 WWs. Then lost a bunch of fights and then won against Tarver, Pavlik and Pascal and that makes up for 16 years of crap?

BHOP was never P4P#1 for good reason. He really hasn't done anything worth even considering him for that position.

Have you guys watched his fights? Did you guys watch the fight where he was getting the business from Allen and then he managed to let Mills Lane push him out of the ring to get a no contest? That was as bad as Devon Alexander crying about the Bradly headbutt and pawing at the wrong eye.

Mills Lane must be on PEDs! LOL ....




And the Oscar for the best performances where a boxer gets hurled out of the ring by a 120lbs referee goes to:

BERNARD HOPKINS!

I also remember hopkins stopping him, and in that fight hopkins TAPPED the dude on the cup and allen FAINTED damn near, LOL. Wasn't that the same year? If so, Allen gets the award IMO.

EDIT -

HERE IT IS, 30 seconds. HAHAHAHAHA



Hopkins beat him not once, but twice. And the TKO victory was directly after Allen proved to still be incredibly dangerous coming off a first round KO victory in his tune up. So it's not like Nard sat on the NC and waited for the guy to get old. It was immediate.

[LightzOut]

toney was amazing in his prime i have to give him that and a prime toney vs prime hopkins , toney would win no doubt about it, but i believe hopkins ranks higher than james toney because hopkins has achieved more than toney.

[kbpoetree]

I also remember hopkins stopping him, and in that fight hopkins TAPPED the dude on the cup and allen FAINTED damn near, LOL. Wasn't that the same year? If so, Allen gets the award IMO.

EDIT -

HERE IT IS, 30 seconds. HAHAHAHAHA



Hopkins beat him not once, but twice. And the TKO victory was directly after Allen proved to still be incredibly dangerous coming off a first round KO victory in his tune up. So it's not like Nard sat on the NC and waited for the guy to get old. It was immediate.

yeah dude u got him on that one..lmao...good job..good k

[Brother Jay]

I also remember hopkins stopping him, and in that fight hopkins TAPPED the dude on the cup and allen FAINTED damn near, LOL. Wasn't that the same year? If so, Allen gets the award IMO.

EDIT -

HERE IT IS, 30 seconds. HAHAHAHAHA



Hopkins beat him not once, but twice. And the TKO victory was directly after Allen proved to still be incredibly dangerous coming off a first round KO victory in his tune up. So it's not like Nard sat on the NC and waited for the guy to get old. It was immediate.

My argument wasn't that Allen was a better fighter. It was that when Allen was getting the better of BHOP, BHOP fell out the ropes, off the canvas and on to the floor. He also said he was unable to continue, but he was able to walk his asss back to the dressing room.

That was it. Period.

Are you implying that what Hopkins did in the rematch has any bearing on what happened during THAT fight??? LOL ... I hope not.

[ИATAS]

lmao@ this guy Brother Jay. You never answered my question in the last thread you tried to use that "he defended a title for 6 years" excuse when I asked WHO DID HE DUCK AT MIDDLEWEIGHT? He fought everyone there was to fight. He also had a hard time getting big fights because of who he was. This is widely known. He went against the grain, had promotional issues suing promoters etc for stealing from him (for example when he fought roy jones his promoter got $750k while hopkins walked away with $70k).

So, who did hopkins duck at middleweight? I mean he fought Echols, Allen, Vanderpool, Glen Johnson, John David Jackson and Joe Lipsey during that time when he had the IBF title. All of those guys were highly regarded at that time. So who was he ducking?

The WBC title holder at that time was Keith Holmes, who hopkins beat. The WBA champion was William Joppy, who Hopkins beat.

The WBO had a guy named Lonnie Bradley and Otis Grant during that time.

So again, who did hopkins duck? Lonnie Bradley

[ИATAS]

Of course I don't expect a response to that question because there is no answer you can provide, being that he ducked no one.

Also, the Monzon comparison is unfair being that there were only 2 titles in his time, whereas in hopkins time there were four major titles. Monzon won both belts in one fight when he beat Nino Benvenuti, whereas hopkins had to fight and beat four different fighters to collect all four belts.

[ИATAS]

Oh, I forgot. Hacine Cherifi held the European title for a little bit. Maybe hopkins ducked him as well.