IBHOF - What would you change?

[joseph5620]

That is the crux of the issue really. Some people want Gatti in for his persona and others do not... One way to look at this is how skillful are boxers as entertainers? Is this entertainer quality part of the fighter's skill set? You see issues like this where society has to have a criteria:

Frank Sinatra sang with perfect pitch and rhythm. He was incredibly technically gifted, Stevie Wonder often sings out of pitch and creates his own tempo....Both great singers. Lets suppose that you had a singer who had incredible technical ability like Sinatra....but he never was famous and never sold many records. Would his ability alone get him recognized as a great entertainer?

See....what we did was turn the problem around from the other side: Gatti was a great entertainer, but not so great a fighter as most of his HOF contemporaries, with the singers it is the same problem in the opposite sense, we could have a guy with great technique but who does not sound as great, or was not as popular as other luminaries. In both cases it ultimately depends on how people choose greatness. I don't have an opinion about Gatti being HOF....

I am willing to consider that along with the skill of throwing a left hook there is a skill in getting the common man to see you as representing them in the ring as the proverbial underdog... which Gatti did so well. At the end of the day if we took and deconstructed Sugar Ray Robinson, considered by many to be the best ever....we would find a man who had few weaknesses as a fighter, could do many things as a fighter most fighters cannot do, had an abnormal drive to win, abnormal physical gifts, was an imperfect human being like us all. One could point to Ali as a fighter who transcended the sport and made it socially relevant as a way to be an activist....Is this something relevant to HOf activity?

Other people see it more simply. HOF membership is a matter of skills and comparison to other fighters. I can see this view as well, it depends on what boxing fans want the HOf to represent....But the one thing I will say is that when it comes to skills and comparison it would be nice to have compitacy. I don't think many sports writers know enough about boxing to be the final representative of the sports fans when voting for HOF membership.

That's not the sole reason Ali is in the HOF. You can't compare Ali's situation to Gatti's.

[sonnyboyx2]

You're damn right they shouldn't. Did I stutter? Now go troll somebody else. Your pathetic arguments are a waste of time.

pathetic arguments ... it's your pathetic knowledge of boxing history which once again i have exposed... You have a "Hatred" of great fighters from the past. if they are not named Lennox Lewis they are garbage in your eyes.

[joseph5620]

It's not the Hall of Greatness it's about being Famous for your fights!
A crowd pleaser, a matchmakers dream, a guarenteed great showing.

This has little to do with a record or huge boxing IQ it's about excitement and
sports coverage.

Ray

If that's the case why is Jess Willard in there? He certainly didn't fit that description based on anything I've read or seen.

If the Hall of fame is based on the ridiculous standards you described fighters like Pipino Cuevas should be in. Throw in fighters like Ernie Shavers too. Where's Diego Corrales?

If the criteria is based on what you see then it's extremely inconsistent and not credible.

[joseph5620]

pathetic arguments ... it's your pathetic knowledge of boxing history which once again i have exposed... You have a "Hatred" of great fighters from the past. if they are not named Lennox Lewis they are garbage in your eyes.

This is coming from a poster who believes winning fight of the year awards should be an automatic entry to the IBHOF. I guess that means fighters like Jorge Castro and Ivan Robinson were unfairly left out.

I'm trying to go easy on you Sonny. It's hard to watch a senior citizen like you going through another one of your typical boxing history meltdowns.

[joeandthebums]

WOoW,,, Jose Torres, Jess Willard, Riddick Bowe, Ingo Johansson & Thunder Gatti.. should not be in the Hall of Fame?????

I find myself in a similar place. Just taking a quick look at some of the older guys, despite being a fan I could see the majority coming out.

Working backwards on the "Modern" list; Fritzie Zivic, Tony Zale, Chalky Wright, Randy Turpin, Max Schmeling...

I think I'll just mark the IBHOF down as a good idea poorly implemented.

[joseph5620]

I find myself in a similar place. Just taking a quick look at some of the older guys, despite being a fan I could see the majority coming out.

Working backwards on the "Modern" list; Fritzie Zivic, Tony Zale, Chalky Wright, Randy Turpin, Max Schmeling...

I think I'll just mark the IBHOF down as a good idea poorly implemented.

Those are my thoughts as well. This is a good topic for the history forum.

[Humean]

Very few asians have been good enough to elect. Big white and black men are not generally interested in midget fighters they could probably whip themselves. An asian heavyweight would do wonders. But unless the asian fighter is fat he would never weigh enough. Most asians are from Tinytown. A minute percentage of their population is large enough, too small a fraction to find that champion.

Your ignorance is actually quite impressive. Good job.

It's not the Hall of Greatness it's about being Famous for your fights!
A crowd pleaser, a matchmakers dream, a guarenteed great showing.

This has little to do with a record or huge boxing IQ it's about excitement and
sports coverage.

Ray

If it is about fame then there should be more from other parts of the world where particular fighters are famous in their own countries even if their fame in the US or elsewhere is very limited. Bobby Chacon is an example of someone who is probably in because he excited so many who were lucky enough to see his exciting fights and who was for a while quite a big deal in his own region but there are other world champions who have probably more fame in their own countries than him but are not in.

[Ray Corso]

Chacon?..................he's in! I'm easy, the hall isn't about highly skilled boxers or Willard wouldn't be in there. It's about Fame!!
Whats the big deal anyways, you want a hall that fits 12 guys?
Indian Red Lopez deserves to be in there, Greg Haugen too these guys fought their azzes off and were credits to the game. The fans loved them
for their efforts everytime out.
ray

[Humean]

Chacon?..................he's in! I'm easy, the hall isn't about highly skilled boxers or Willard wouldn't be in there. It's about Fame!!
Whats the big deal anyways, you want a hall that fits 12 guys?
Indian Red Lopez deserves to be in there, Greg Haugen too these guys fought their azzes off and were credits to the game. The fans loved them
for their efforts everytime out.
ray

I'm fine with it being mainly about fame but they are inconsistent and biased on those terms too. Guys like Ali, Tyson, Louis, Leonard etc had worldwide fame but most world champions, including some very good ones, had only a fairly localized fame. Some inductees didn't even have that, such as Charley Burley.

[billeau2]

That's not the sole reason Ali is in the HOF. You can't compare Ali's situation to Gatti's.

You missed my point. I am not comparing anyone to Gatti or Ali.