Let's be honest here....Manny took human growth hormone right?...Reasonable debate.

[sunny31]

You know how I know youre full of ****? You keep trying to compare Mexico with Phillipines. One is a know boxing powerouse country and the other isnt.

Please cite your source for these 39 champions they have im curious to what era this was/ weight classes these are in. I have a feeling you will only further prove my point - they dont do well above a certain weight and past that weight it should be a red flag for PEDs.

Also, thank you for proving that Hungary is much more of a candidate for producing top P4P talent than the Phillipines. The fact that they havent, but that Island has... you have to be living with your head up your ass. Im sure you voted for Brexit too ? LMAO

/thread

PS - Just in case you hadn't noticed, I am the thread starter. I am of the belief that Manny Pacquiao TOOK Ped's but your reasoning and perspective is foolish.

[Dosumpthin]

What was Manny doing PRP and who gave it? Manny's doctor did and confirmed that Manny was injured

.

Roach and arum have two different dates - approximately two weeks apart - as to when manny supposedly injured his arm in training camp.

So when did he start the prp treatments? For how long? How many injections? What did the MRI show? Why not just simply rest the arm like arum has claimed they've done since 2008 before starting treatment?
Why didn't manny rest his arm AFTER getting treatments?

Bottom line - there are so many lies coming from their camp who knows what the intent was.


Lidocaine, toradol, celstone and PRP for an undisclosed injury that no one knows for certain when it happened that manny supposedly reinjured but never showed signs of during the fight - oh yeah and a surgery performed that AMAZINGLY didn't require rehab to heal.


Amusingly highly suspicious. But not to a pact@rd. A vampire facial is considered blood doping though. Smh.

Now your turn. Get me Floyd's doctor for the vampire facial joke and the IV scandal? Oh wait, they are both in hiding.

Maybe the good Dr ariza performed the vampire facial along with signing off on the tue for the iv.

Goofball.

So it's cheating because you don't know who performed a cosmetic procedure?

But with all the lies surrounding mannys injury - his intended use of prp blood spinning for God knows how many times is legitimate?

Floyd had side effects and couldn't hide it.

Floyd said it's taken like a month to heal.

Indicates the injections were performed about a month ago in the facial area.

Do you know how blood doping works?

Pact@rd. You should look it up.

Let me know who would be dumb enough to get PRP on the eyes just before training for a fight? See, it does not make any sense!!!

So how is this blood doping? A cosmetic procedure that Kim Kardashian made famous. Usually heals in a couple of days.

Maybe it was a bad decision to do before training, and maybe that's why it didn't heal like it should of. Maybe really spence did give him a black eye. So ****ing what.


The point is this.


Pact@rds claimed Floyd abused lidocaine and prp leading up to the fight.....only to read the same Lidocaine and prp treatments listed on manny pacquiao pre fight form.

And now you are left defending your hero against the same very same accusations you've leveled against floyd.


Stupid pact@rd.

[Elotero]

Projecting what? I'm not Pinoy, nor asian.

It's you that's projecting here, you mean to tell me if Pac was juicing no one else was? you made the initial insinuation Pac was likely juicing because he doesn't come from a country known for producing top level athletes.... but forgot to mention boxing is a niche sport that few care about and has been so for quite some time now. Mexicans aren't particularly athletic or prominent in sports other than lower weight boxing.

"Projecting what? blah blah blah WHat about Mexico?"

[therealpugilist]

"I've never known a man who turned down 20 million dollar drug test" Floyd.

NUFF SAID

thats how I felt in 2009...thats how i felt in 2016....simple

[therealpugilist]

the Pac brigade getting ethered ala IV Master Greedance Saltwater Revival thread

salt water is the new epson salt you know.....thanks manny

[Elotero]

You have to be one of the most ignorant dizzy mfer's I have come across on here for a while. The world champions list is easily accessible online, please look it up yourself I am not going to do it for you. Also stop moving the goal posts in the debate, first you say this is a country with very little boxing pedigree, now that has disproven you say its a country who only has pedigree up to a certain weight. I can tell you that there are a few guys besides Manny that have had titles at 140 or above, so again you are wrong. Of course they are more prominent in the lower weight classes, that could be said of a lot of countries.

You know how I know you are as ignorant as it gets? Because you are ignoring the basis of my comparison with Mexico and the Philippines. So I will repeat myself one last time, hopefully you will understand, I am not comparing their status in professional boxing, I am not saying they are on the same level or even in the same stratosphere, I am saying that they both have some things in common in the way that fighters are developed, relatively they both produce much more success in the pro game than amateur, one of your initial arguments was that the Philippines don't produce top class amateurs and lots of Filipino fighters don't have pedigree from the beginning of their career and I countered that with the fact that most of them go pro early, and because of that they tend to learn on the job and have a penchant for developing later. Which is pretty similar to Mexico, only difference is that Mexico has better trainers, they have greater numbers, boxing is more apart of their culture and history, so they have much more competition, thus greater success and they are more ready once they come to the US or major networks to compete. You know that if a young fighters comes from Mexico with an undefeated record and a reputation, that he is going to be good. You can't say the same about a filipino fighter, but the filipino fighter may have potential to be. Either way both countries tend to push young fighters to enter the pro game early rather than get a proper amateur education, Gerry Penalosa, Manny Pacquiao, Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales all went pro at either 16 or 17, and went on to become multiple world champions. That is where they are similar, Mexico just do it at a far greater frequency and with more success.

Either way dismissing anyone because of what country they come from, and jumping to the conclusion that they must be on PED's is braindead. That is literally a braindead argument, and quite frankly I feel sorry for you as a human being with such a narrow minded perspective. One of the beauties of boxing is that there aren't a lot of barriers to participation, thus why extremely poor countries are able to produce fighters. There are so many examples of one off's or a few gems from different countries down the years that your argument has no validity whatsoever. It is not fact based at all, I have always come back at you with facts based arguments, your argument is speculation, ignorance, and comes across as downright prejudice.

I guess based on your way of thinking that Yao Ming is on PED's, because the average height of Men in China is 5f 7in. John Ruiz must have been on PED's because Mexican's don't produce heavyweights. Or Mikkel Kessler was on PED's because he is from Denmark. Roberto Duran, and Eusebio Pedroza - massive red flag both from Panama, not to mention Duran went to Super Middleweight.

The best thing about our sport is that the next Mike Tyson, Azumah Nelson, Bob Fitzsimmons, Carlos Monzon, Lennox Lewis, Felix Trinidad, Lomachenko, can be born in any country or continent anywhere in the world (and those guys all were). There aren't many if any other sports you can say that about, and I'll be damned if I let you say otherwise.

Resorting to name calling like a little boy? Why stop there? Why not call big brother lmao

I fail to see how it is unreasonable to suspect PEDs under the conditions I have outlined. Turning out stellar success, from an area where there has been little to none in 60 or so years is questionable. To just be so willing to attribute this to an anomaly proves how willingly gullible you are especially in the PED age.

You already lost whatever the hell youre trying to convey bringiing all these irrelevant things into this non-debate when im just talking one thing: boxing. Yao MIng? Panama? Bob Fitzimmons? John Ruiz is Mexican? Boy, you dont know what the f.uck youre talking about

[sunny31]

Resorting to name calling like a little boy? Why stop there? Why not call big brother lmao

I fail to see how it is unreasonable to suspect PEDs under the conditions I have outlined. Turning out stellar success, from an area where there has been little to none in 60 or so years is questionable. To just be so willing to attribute this to an anomaly proves how willingly gullible you are especially in the PED age.

You already lost whatever the hell youre trying to convey bringiing all these irrelevant things into this non-debate when im just talking one thing: boxing. Yao MIng? Panama? Bob Fitzimmons? John Ruiz is Mexican? Boy, you dont know what the f.uck youre talking about

Little to no success in 60 years? LOL - how can you claim that without any facts to support it. The Philippines first ever world champion was in 1923, for the record if you are as numerically challenged as you are illiterate then that was 93 years ago. He was the first of many.

The problem is that one thing (boxing) you want to talk about...you don't have a clue about it. Here learn something, and until you do please don't come back to this thread.

http://philboxing.com/boxers/former.world.champions.php

[travestyny]

Lidocaine, toradol, celstone and PRP for an undisclosed injury that no one knows for certain when it happened that manny supposedly reinjured but never showed signs of during the fight - oh yeah and a surgery performed that AMAZINGLY didn't require rehab to heal.

Oh no, didn't you hear? According to ADP02, Pacquaio's rehab consisted of scuba diving, badminton, basketball, and chess!!! Doesn't it make you want to rip your shoulder up? I know I'd love to have that rehabilitation vacation.


I'm not lying...this dude actually said that. He doesn't want to discuss the topic of this thread, though. I wonder how he feels knowing that it was revealed that Pacquiao didn't inform anyone of his so called injury, but instead had his doctors begin the process of shooting him up with Toradol before NSAC stopped it. How long has Manny Pacquiao been abusing Toradol???

[sunny31]

Resorting to name calling like a little boy? Why stop there? Why not call big brother lmao

I fail to see how it is unreasonable to suspect PEDs under the conditions I have outlined. Turning out stellar success, from an area where there has been little to none in 60 or so years is questionable. To just be so willing to attribute this to an anomaly proves how willingly gullible you are especially in the PED age.

You already lost whatever the hell youre trying to convey bringiing all these irrelevant things into this non-debate when im just talking one thing: boxing. Yao MIng? Panama? Bob Fitzimmons? John Ruiz is Mexican? Boy, you dont know what the f.uck youre talking about

Ha ha this gets better and better. I actually decided to look through some of these Filipino champions as some I knew, but not others, and look what I found:

CEFERINO "BOLO PUNCH" GARCIA
World Middleweight Champion Oct 2, 1939 - May 23, 1940

He was the heaviest Filipino ever who became a world-boxing champion, known for the "bolo punch" which he originated. He captured the world middleweight title on October 2, 1939 when he knocked out Fred Apostoli in the 7th round with a single "bolo" punch in New York City. He defended his crown against top rivals twice (Americans Glen Lee and Henry Armstrong). He was born in 1912 and grew up in Tondo, Manila. In 1977, Ceferino Garcia was inducted into the Ring Magazine Hall of Fame and into the World Boxing Hall of Fame in 1981.

Yes so not only was there a Filipino middleweight champion, but he won it when there was only one champion, in a massively competitive era where he fought Henry Armstrong twice losing their first fight and getting a draw in the second. Not only that but he is in the HOF, and it doesn't end there, he invented the "bolo punch" and knocked his opponent out with it to win the middleweight title.

/game over

[Elotero]

Ha ha this gets better and better. I actually decided to look through some of these Filipino champions as some I knew, but not others, and look what I found:

CEFERINO "BOLO PUNCH" GARCIA
World Middleweight Champion Oct 2, 1939 - May 23, 1940

He was the heaviest Filipino ever who became a world-boxing champion, known for the "bolo punch" which he originated. He captured the world middleweight title on October 2, 1939 when he knocked out Fred Apostoli in the 7th round with a single "bolo" punch in New York City. He defended his crown against top rivals twice (Americans Glen Lee and Henry Armstrong). He was born in 1912 and grew up in Tondo, Manila. In 1977, Ceferino Garcia was inducted into the Ring Magazine Hall of Fame and into the World Boxing Hall of Fame in 1981.

Yes so not only was there a Filipino middleweight champion, but he won it when there was only one champion, in a massively competitive era where he fought Henry Armstrong twice losing their first fight and getting a draw in the second. Not only that but he is in the HOF, and it doesn't end there, he invented the "bolo punch" and knocked his opponent out with it to win the middleweight title.

/game over

Game over? The game changer you bring to the table is from the 1940's?

As if bringing up something that was an anomaly in the the 40's somehow significant today.

LMFAO, take this L and stit the **** down already bud. Youre now spouting random useless bull**** to me, thinking that this somehow steers this in your favor. Im sorry but youre just too ****ing stupid to deal with anymore.