Comments Thread For: Chisora: Klitschkos Killed My Sport, Time For a New King!

[4Corners]

If you going to state that the likes of Ron Lyle and Ernie Shavers or even Foreman or Ali could beat fighters in any era. Than in fairness to the Klit bros you should be able to say the same thing about them. Simply because they still happen to be pretty good fighters regardless of what era they happen to fight in. You even admit that your self.

I do think that though. H2H, I really do think they'd beat any HW prior to Ali's era. Does that make them greater all-time, not to me.

For example, if Joe Louis in his prime fought Mike Tyson in his prime, I would bet on Mike Tyson to beat him. But, Louis is still greater all-time, based on career, resume, era, which most base ATG on.

H2H, the Klitschko's are probably Top 10 HW's to me, but they are around Top 15 or so based on ATG. Do you get what I mean, or no???

H2H, the only people I would absolutely favor over the Klitschko's, prime for prime, are Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Holyfield, Bowe, and Lewis. Tyson, Frazier, Liston, Norton, Shavers, Lyle, Moorer, they'd be interesting fights.

If we took Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers, and Ron Lyle in their peak versions and put them in the 00's, they'd be the toughest guys the Klitschko's would have to face for sure. I have no doubt that Norton, Lyle, and Shavers would beat Sanders, Chambers, Arreola, Peter, Byrd, Ruiz, etc.

[Ravens Fan]

I do think that though. H2H, I really do think they'd beat any HW prior to Ali's era. Does that make them greater all-time, not to me.

For example, if Joe Louis in his prime fought Mike Tyson in his prime, I would bet on Mike Tyson to beat him. But, Louis is still greater all-time, based on career, resume, era, which most base ATG on.

H2H, the Klitschko's are probably Top 10 HW's to me, but they are around Top 15 or so based on ATG. Do you get what I mean, or no???

H2H, the only people I would absolutely favor over the Klitschko's, prime for prime, are Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Holyfield, Bowe, and Lewis. Tyson, Frazier, Liston, Norton, Shavers, Lyle, Moorer, they'd be interesting fights.

If we took Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers, and Ron Lyle in their peak versions and put them in the 00's, they'd be the toughest guys the Klitschko's would have to face for sure. I have no doubt that Norton, Lyle, and Shavers would beat Sanders, Chambers, Arreola, Peter, Byrd, Ruiz, etc.

Why would Joe Louis lose to Tyson, because he was much smaller? All those fighters you mentioned would have been some of the smallest heavyweights the Klit bros would have fought. And I am not just making a blanket statement that the Klit bros would beat all of those fighters. But, on size alone they would have a great chance to do so. Oh yeah, and the fact that they happen to be pretty skilled fighters, with ko power, might also help to increase their chances.

[4Corners]

Why would Joe Louis lose to Tyson, because he was much smaller? All those fighters you mentioned would have been some of the smallest heavyweights the Klit bros would have fought. And I am not just making a blanket statement that the Klit bros would beat all of those fighters. But, on size alone they would have a great chance to do so. Oh yeah, and the fact that they happen to be pretty skilled fighters, with ko power, might also help to increase their chances.

Just on the eye test alone, I can't imagine Louis beating Tyson. They would exchange and I just see Louis getting KO'd. Just my gut, I don't know. It's not like Joe was a great boxer or had great speed or anything. He came forward the majority of the time and would fight toe-to-toe, and I can't in a million years see him beating Tyson in his prime toe-to-toe.

And who did I mention that was small??? To me, small HW's are like Floyd Patterson (185-195 lbs), not any of the other guys I mentioned. Who else did I mention that I'd favor over the Klitschko's or would be interesting if they fought, who was small????

Liston: 215-220
Ali: Anywhere from 205-215 in his prime.
Frazier: 205-210 (probably the smallest of the guys I mentioned)
Norton: 210-215 usually
Shavers: 210-220 usually
Holmes: 210-215
Tyson: 215-220
Holyfield: Anywhere around 210-215
Bowe: 240-245
Moorer: Anywhere from 215-225
Lewis: 235-245

So, I still don't know why you keep bringing up size??? The only thing I said about size was that I feel Vitali or Wlad would beat Patterson on size alone, because Floyd was a 190 lb HW for much of his career and in his prime. I consider that a small HW, not guys that are anywhere from 210-240. Those guys really aren't that small. Like I said, of the guys I said that I'd favor fo the Klitschko's H2H or where it'd be interesting, Joe Frazier who was around 205 lbs was probably the smallest.

So, the Klitschko's are probably Top 10 H2H All-Time, but based on career, resume, era, I'd probably say anywhere from 10-15, no higher for me.

[JAB5239]

Just on the eye test alone, I can't imagine Louis beating Tyson. They would exchange and I just see Louis getting KO'd. Just my gut, I don't know. It's not like Joe was a great boxer or had great speed or anything. He came forward the majority of the time and would fight toe-to-toe, and I can't in a million years see him beating Tyson in his prime toe-to-toe.

I don't mind the opinion of Tyson beating Louis, but to say he wasn't a great boxer or didn't have excellent hand speed is just crazy. There has never been a better pure heavyweight boxer than Joe Louis.

[Ravens Fan]

Just on the eye test alone, I can't imagine Louis beating Tyson. They would exchange and I just see Louis getting KO'd. Just my gut, I don't know. It's not like Joe was a great boxer or had great speed or anything. He came forward the majority of the time and would fight toe-to-toe, and I can't in a million years see him beating Tyson in his prime toe-to-toe.

And who did I mention that was small??? To me, small HW's are like Floyd Patterson (185-195 lbs), not any of the other guys I mentioned. Who else did I mention that I'd favor over the Klitschko's or would be interesting if they fought, who was small????

Liston: 215-220
Ali: Anywhere from 205-215 in his prime.
Frazier: 205-210 (probably the smallest of the guys I mentioned)
Norton: 210-215 usually
Shavers: 210-220 usually
Holmes: 210-215
Tyson: 215-220
Holyfield: Anywhere around 210-215
Bowe: 240-245
Moorer: Anywhere from 215-225
Lewis: 235-245

So, I still don't know why you keep bringing up size??? The only thing I said about size was that I feel Vitali or Wlad would beat Patterson on size alone, because Floyd was a 190 lb HW for much of his career and in his prime. I consider that a small HW, not guys that are anywhere from 210-240. Those guys really aren't that small. Like I said, of the guys I said that I'd favor fo the Klitschko's H2H or where it'd be interesting, Joe Frazier who was around 205 lbs was probably the smallest.

So, the Klitschko's are probably Top 10 H2H All-Time, but based on career, resume, era, I'd probably say anywhere from 10-15, no higher for me.

I will tell you why I bring up the size difference it is because they may have been big heavyweights for their time. And I am not jut talking about weight. Shavers, Frazier and Liston were all 6' tall and Tyson was under 6' and most of the others 6' 3" or under. So, other then Bowe and Lewis all of them are small when compared to the Klit brothers. And just on size alone I would give the bros a good shot to beat anyone of them on any given night. But, I will say that it would be their size combined with the fact that they also happen to be pretty skilled fighters with power that helps their cause. What I am saying is, its not like Tye Fields would beat the fighters that you mentioned on size alone.

And if you haven't noticed, unlike what you have said, I never stated that the Klit bros would beat any of them. I just said that they would have a pretty good chance against all of them. And to say in one sentence that the Klit bros are all time greats. And then state in the next sentence that the only fighter out all the ones that you mentioned that you would pick the Klit bros to beat is a 190 pound Floyd Patterson. Honestly, to me that just doesn't make sense. Because it doesn't sound like you truly believe the Klit bros are anywhere near to being all time greats. Or for that matter it doesn't sound like you even think that they are really all that good.

[4Corners]

I don't mind the opinion of Tyson beating Louis, but to say he wasn't a great boxer or didn't have excellent hand speed is just crazy. There has never been a better pure heavyweight boxer than Joe Louis.

Joe Louis was great, but did he have ATG speed??? No. I have heard very few people ever talk about Joe's speed. He wasn't some phenominal slick boxer or anything. He's an ATG for sure, and based career, era, resume, all together, I'd definitely have him as the top 1 or 2 HW's of all-time. H2H, it's a different story. Because I just see a lot of future HW's that I think would have beaten Joe Louis. Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, W. Klitschko, V. Klitschko, all have shots to beat Joe Louis.

[4Corners]

I will tell you why I bring up the size difference it is because they may have been big heavyweights for their time. And I am not jut talking about weight. Shavers, Frazier and Liston were all 6' tall and Tyson was under 6' and most of the others 6' 3" or under. So, other then Bowe and Lewis all of them are small when compared to the Klit brothers. And just on size alone I would give the bros a good shot to beat anyone of them on any given night. But, I will say that it would be their size combined with the fact that they also happen to be pretty skilled fighters with power that helps their cause. What I am saying is, its not like Tye Fields would beat the fighters that you mentioned on size alone.

And if you haven't noticed, unlike what you have said, I never stated that the Klit bros would beat any of them. I just said that they would have a pretty good chance against all of them. And to say in one sentence that the Klit bros are all time greats. And then state in the next sentence that the only fighter out all the ones that you mentioned that you would pick the Klit bros to beat is a 190 pound Floyd Patterson. Honestly, to me that just doesn't make sense. Because it doesn't sound like you truly believe the Klit bros are anywhere near to being all time greats. Or for that matter it doesn't sound like you even think that they are really all that good.

I get what you're saying about the height and size, but that's not the sole reason why I think the Klitschko's would beat them or anything. The Klitschko's are great, I have always said. And if I was forced to put money on who they'd beat, I'd put money on them to beat the majority of the HW's. And back to the very original thing I was talking about before size and everything......H2H they are Top 10 HW's All-Time to me. But, their era wasn't exactly the toughest for the time, so based on what most go by for the ATG list, I'd place them anywhere from 10-15. All I was ever trying to get was that HW's like Earnier Shavers, Ron Lyle, and Ken Norton would have been the best HW's the Klitschko's would have had to fight, far and away. If we removed peak versions of Shavers, Norton, and Lyle, they would rule the HW division in the 00's-present day, along with the Klitschko's. Do I think they'd beat the Klitschko's??? Probably not, but they'd be their toughest tests, far and away to me.