the myth that todays fat HW's are bigger and stronger

[Cardinal Buck]

^ The K bros stay outside at all costs. Bowe welcomed an inside fight. I see either brother beating Frazier but getting the occasional scare from a left hook.

[StarshipTrooper]

^ The K bros stay outside at all costs. Bowe welcomed an inside fight. I see either brother beating Frazier but getting the occasional scare from a left hook.

The Klits stay outside because their opponents allow them to do so. Today's Heavyweights have no desire to fight on the inside and have no clue how to do it. That problem does not exist with Frazier. The only Klit opponent who made any effort to fight inside was Chisora and he didn't have the firepower to pull it off. Again, Frazier doesn't have that problem.

Poet

[The Iron Man]

As I agree about Adamek and Haye, he would never beat either of the Klitschkoes. Too physically weak to push them around and not good chin enough to take their punches. He would go down and go down early. His punching power would also be less than it was against significantly smaller opponents and his height would be more of disadvantage.
Also, you must not have the best idea of how fighters are making weight if you're saying that 205 pounder could not go down to cruiserweight.

Can you explain this? Why would Fraziers punching power be reduced against the Klitschkos?

[StarshipTrooper]

I smell some size whoring going on (ie. weight is everything and automatically determines the outcome of a fight). Hell, why bother having the fight? Let's just declare a winner at weigh-in!

Poet

[The Iron Man]

Not against Klitschkos in particular, against bigger, heavier guys that fight in modern heavyweight in general. Moving him from 60's to 2010's is like he moved up in weight without gaining weight himself.

So in order for a heavyweight to knock another heavyweight out they have to be close in weight?

These punchers weighing over 200lbs, hell even 180lbs pack a huge punch. I don't think extra weight will help in taking a punch. Even more so if that extra weight is fat.

[The Iron Man]

Did I say that? I said he would not punch as hard as he was against smaller guys. Doesn't mean he would turn into Malignaggi.
How does extra weight not help in taking punches? Just look at a lot of fighters that move up in weight(face bigger opponents) and how they punching power gets lost somehow. Morales,Mayweather,Freitas,Castillo,Adamek and so on.
As for Frazier success against modern heavyweights. People seem to believe that rules does not apply for old time fighters. History shows that aggressive pressure fighters like Frazier are not doing well while moving up and their opponents get physically stronger. They can't push them around, their body-punching and head punching is not doing so much damage, they are less effective overally. And moving Frazier from fighting 210 average guys to 230 average guys is like moving up and not a small step either.
Again, don't put a word in my mouth please, I'm not saying he'd be a bum, lost to Adamek or whatever, but he would never be as effective as he was in 60's.

I was just trying to make understand what you mean. It seems like you are saying that his punches wouldn't have the same effect because the opponent is heavier. So based on that logic heavyweights will stand a better chance of KOing others closer to their weight is that not what you mean?

What I meant is that when someone is a big puncher and weighs 200lb+ a 30lb weight advantage is not going to make their punches have less effect.

[The Iron Man]

They would stand better chance of koing other closer to their weight over who? Over heavier guys. Yes, in general(of course some light heavyweights may be able to take better punches than some heavyweights).
I understand what you mean, but I disagree. I think you can say that 200+ puncher will still be good puncher puncher against bigger guy, regardless how big they will get, but his punches will never make quite the same effect on bigger guys unless you get bigger yourself and make the weight you are gaining perfectly functional what's always very difficult task and I'm not considering that iffy scenario here.
Knock-out king Wilfredo Gomez was never able to knock out world class opponent above 122. Roberto Duran power well much less factor above lightweight. The same with Mike McCallum, Jones Jr..
They all still punched hard after moving up, but just not quite as hard. Would happen to Frazier as well, I believe in even bigger extent because of his style of pushing opponents back(would be very hard being outweighted like that) and a difference being even bigger than with smaller guys moving up couple pounds. Just look what happend to Adamek going up from cruiserweight. He get from good puncher to completely featherfisted and that's the kind of jump in size of opponents that Frazier would have to make.

I guess we just disagree. For me that statement in bold is just not true, especially at heavyweight. Many great heavyweight punchers have proven that a 20 or 30lb difference doesn't matter.

[Sam Donald]

What about that young amateur, Anthony Joshua. He would kill any current heavyweight today and could have mixed in with all the greats.

[JAB5239]

Heavyweights from the past were more ripped for sure generally, but it's not like every heavyweight is fat. It's not myth, those guys right now are bigger, there's much more giants nowadays. Of course there was a lot of big heavyweights in the past as you're looking at a time of hundred years, but just today you can look at a ratings and see:
6'6 - 250 Wlad
6'7 - 245 Vitaly
6'5 - 240 Pulev
6'9 - 245 Fury
6'5 - 245 Thompson
6'8 - 250 Price
6'7 - 240 Helenius
6'8 - 300 Ustinov
6'7 - 250 Wach
6'7 - 250 Dimitrenko
And more, now give me a single year before 80's with so many giants fighting at hw.

Since 1975 the worlds population has nearly doubled, that's the reason we see more fighters bigger than ever. This doesn't change the fact the majority can't go 12 rounds let alone 15 before gassing..

[JAB5239]

Frazier would be a cruiserweight today he's probable smaller than Haye and Adamek.

Frazier in no way, shape or form would be a cruiser today. He is one of those fighters who trained down to be in peak physical condition. He would destroy today's division and I would favor him over both Klits as well.