USA has 14 Trillion dollar debt!

[Ta Khent]

By law all money doesn't have to be backed, it used to be backed by precious metals until Richard Nixon nixed it. Now its not backed by anything but paper. Them "buying" treasury bills is nothing more than sleight of hand. The government is lent the money.


Sell shares of what? What does the Fed produce? Debt?

The ability to sell shares isn't not one of the major tests of ownership. I own a car and my house, do I need to sell shares to prove I own them?


Its as private as it gets. Learn more about it.

Shareholders own and control a private corporation. In this case, the member banks (12 branches of the Fed) are the shareholders. There are so many restrictions on the stock that it doesn't even meet the test of ownership. The stock carries no proprietary interest, cannot be sold or pledged as collateral, and does not carry voting rights. The member banks cannot lay any claim to assets of the Federal Reserve district banks beyond the par value of the stock they hold. The selling of stock is one of the major tests of ownership. Furthermore, each member bank has only one vote regardless of the number of shares they own. They cannot vote on anything of substance. They can't even vote on the board of directors or the chairman. They can vote for 6 of the 9 Board of Governors and the remaing 3 are determined by the Board of Governors. Board members are forbidden by law to have an economic interest in a private bank (Title 12, Chapter 3 of the US Code). It is not a private corporation in the sense of the word.

Listed below are the rights of shareholders for a typical corporation like Microsoft:

Voting rights on issues that affect the corporation as a whole
Rights related to the assets of the corporation
Rights related to the transfer of stock
Rights to receive dividends as declared by the board of directors of the corporation
Rights to inspect the records and books of the corporation
Rights to bring suit against the corporation for wrongful acts by the directors and officers of the corporation
Rights to share in the proceeds recovered when the corporation liquidates its assets

[Bastian Loc]

Shareholders own and control a private corporation. In this case, the member banks (12 branches of the Fed) are the shareholders. There are so many restrictions on the stock that it doesn't even meet the test of ownership. The stock carries no proprietary interest, cannot be sold or pledged as collateral, and does not carry voting rights. The member banks cannot lay any claim to assets of the Federal Reserve district banks beyond the par value of the stock they hold. The selling of stock is one of the major tests of ownership. Furthermore, each member bank has only one vote regardless of the number of shares they own. They cannot vote on anything of substance. They can't even vote on the board of directors or the chairman. They can vote for 6 of the 9 Board of Governors and the remaing 3 are determined by the Board of Governors. Board members are forbidden by law to have an economic interest in a private bank (Title 12, Chapter 3 of the US Code). It is not a private corporation in the sense of the word.

Listed below are the rights of shareholders for a typical corporation like Microsoft:

Voting rights on issues that affect the corporation as a whole
Rights related to the assets of the corporation
Rights related to the transfer of stock
Rights to receive dividends as declared by the board of directors of the corporation
Rights to inspect the records and books of the corporation
Rights to bring suit against the corporation for wrongful acts by the directors and officers of the corporation
Rights to share in the proceeds recovered when the corporation liquidates its assets

Its a private cartel of banks with government powers. Its not a corporation in the traditional sense but its private.

Its a hybrid if you wanna get technical about it.

Your criteria in defining the fed is faulty on its very premise because it assumes its a traditional corporation.

Its not and never has been.

Your claims that nobody owns the Fed is laughable. Seriously, learn more about it.

[Jim Jeffries]

The US debt is astronomical. 100% of GNP. The worst quota in the industrial world.

I don't think we're quite at 100% of GDP yet, maybe by the end of next year. But we're a hell of a lot closer to it than we were two years ago, when the deficit was 10 and some change.

Did Ta Khent figure out what arbitrary means yet?

BTW Pandatwat, I didn't think I pwned you enough to warrant a thunderdome style thread about me. By all means, resume America bashing, it's all the rage these days.

[Ta Khent]

Its a private cartel of banks with government powers. Its not a corporation in the traditional sense but its private.

Its a hybrid if you wanna get technical about it.

Your criteria in defining the fed is faulty on its very premise because it assumes its a traditional corporation.

Its not and never has been.

Your claims that nobody owns the Fed is laughable. Seriously, learn more about it.

Boy, your comprehension is piss poor. Your attempt to infer that the Fed is privately owned and controlled like a traditional corporation is absolute nonsense. Read the freaking law. The stocks don't confer ownership. Furthermore, the amount of stock each bank holds is set by law. They can hold no more or less than a dictated amount. To own something is to exert control over it, which in this case the stockholders do not have. How can you own something you cannot control? The Board of Governors control the Fed who are selected by the President and confirmed by the Senate. So for all intents and purposes, the Government owns the Fed because they can control it.

[Spray_resistant]

Its just imaginary money.

[Ta Khent]

I don't think we're quite at 100% of GDP yet, maybe by the end of next year. But we're a hell of a lot closer to it than we were two years ago, when the deficit was 10 and some change.

Did Ta Khent figure out what arbitrary means yet?

BTW Pandatwat, I didn't think I pwned you enough to warrant a thunderdome style thread about me. By all means, resume America bashing, it's all the rage these days.

What are you talking about? Are you stalking me?

[Uturn]

I blame war.

[Jim Jeffries]

What are you talking about? Are you stalking me?

Do you always answer a question with more questions?

We were in the same thread yesterday and you made quite a fool of yourself using "big" words you obviously didn't know the meaning of. Don't be too hard on yourself, we all got a good laugh out of it.

[Ta Khent]

Do you always answer a question with more questions?

We were in the same thread yesterday and you made quite a fool of yourself using "big" words you obviously didn't know the meaning of. Don't be too hard on yourself, we all got a good laugh out of it.

Elaborate please.

[PandaKilla]

The war on Iraq and Afghanistan has cost 1.1 Trillion dollars.

No wonder why they have a good army, they spend 9 times more than anyone else a year.

They spend more on their army than apparently the rest of the world.

Everything is built on money they don't really have!