How long before Showtime surpasses HBO?

[rogdogx]

HBO's line up to close the year isn't all that bad but up until this point Showtime had been putting on some great boxing match ups. Bradley-Marquez is no doubt at the Apex of the sport, atleast from the Top Rank side of things. GBP has a stranglehold on the hot JWW, WW, & JMW divisions with plently of depth in those divisions. Alvarado, Rios, & Provodnikov are all decent fighters that seem to just be a cut below elite. Bradley, JMM, & Pacman are no doubt the big time talent. GGG was a great acquisition by HBO as well. Those stars will only take you so far when going against Floyd Mayweather & budding PPV stars Broner & Canelo (and possibly Danny Garcia). Chavez Jr's latest pathetic display of unprofessionalism really is a big hit to Top Rank's shrinking PPV potential. At this particular time it seems like the future of the sport lies with GBP. Showtime/GBP just set the PPV revenue record with "The One". How long before we see Showtime begin to pull even on ratings or possibly pull ahead? If present trends continue it's possible that HBO will lose their aura of being the premium boxing channel unless they start working with GBP again.

[Foreign Soil]

Showtime wont ever surpass HBO. It's the reason why Oscar was so upset when HBO cut ties with GBP.

[Hougigo]

It all comes down to the names IMO, because that's what the casuals tune in for.
GBP no doubt stacks their cards and it really makes us boxing fans hapy.... but the names are what bring in the numbers.
True they have a stranglehold on the JWW, WW and pretty much the JMW division. They're thin pretty much north of there and have some decent fighters south of there.
Also, if Arum's international... or rather Asian appeal works, then Top Rank and HBO will only get stronger.
Right now he has Lomachenko and Shiming. If Arum is good at anything, it's making stars. Hate him if you want, but you can't deny that.

[HanzGruber]

It will take a long time. But it won't take that long if they let kellerman continue to do play by play

[King_]

HBO's line up to close the year isn't all that bad but up until this point Showtime had been putting on some great boxing match ups. Bradley-Marquez is no doubt at the Apex of the sport, atleast from the Top Rank side of things. GBP has a stranglehold on the hot JWW, WW, & JMW divisions with plently of depth in those divisions. Alvarado, Rios, & Provodnikov are all decent fighters that seem to just be a cut below elite. Bradley, JMM, & Pacman are no doubt the big time talent. GGG was a great acquisition by HBO as well. Those stars will only take you so far when going against Floyd Mayweather & budding PPV stars Broner & Canelo (and possibly Danny Garcia). Chavez Jr's latest pathetic display of unprofessionalism really is a big hit to Top Rank's shrinking PPV potential. At this particular time it seems like the future of the sport lies with GBP. Showtime/GBP just set the PPV revenue record with "The One". How long before we see Showtime begin to pull even on ratings or possibly pull ahead? If present trends continue it's possible that HBO will lose their aura of being the premium boxing channel unless they start working with GBP again.

This whole post is 100% subjective.

[Bullrider]

Look we all saw the so-called "The One." The four fights, including the main card, were no different from regular fights. I don't think casuals will ever spend again to watch that kind of crap. It's a huge rip off.

[rogdogx]

It all comes down to the names IMO, because that's what the casuals tune in for.
GBP no doubt stacks their cards and it really makes us boxing fans hapy.... but the names are what bring in the numbers.
True they have a stranglehold on the JWW, WW and pretty much the JMW division. They're thin pretty much north of there and have some decent fighters south of there.
Also, if Arum's international... or rather Asian appeal works, then Top Rank and HBO will only get stronger.
Right now he has Lomachenko and Shiming. If Arum is good at anything, it's making stars. Hate him if you want, but you can't deny that.

Top Rank definitely has the international edge. Good point. HBO & Top Rank won't be going anywhere but I am interested in seeing how American viewership goes. GBP has had a quality advantage especially at the PPV level with stacked cards as you pointed out. Right now the better product is being put out by Showtime/GBP. The more established commodity is HBO. Eventually you can't just get by on being HBO alone if you aren't able to compete with what Showtime gots going on though. I like your point about name value. Nobody is bigger then Floyd & Manny's star took a big hit with the KO. HBO doesn't have that carry the torch guy after Manny established at the PPV level.

[rogdogx]

This whole post is 100% subjective.

this whole sport is subjective though. we are in about as subjective a field as could be following this sport.

[rogdogx]

It will take a long time. But it won't take that long if they let kellerman continue to do play by play

lmao great point. i've never heard such slow delivery. we were chuckling about that during the stevenson fight.

[King_]

this whole sport is subjective though. we are in about as subjective a field as could be following this sport.

Fair enough but whats the point of the thread? things like saying the jw's or ww's of GBP or anybody promoted by golden boy are better then any of their top rank/hbo counterparts just because they're promoted by GBP is but a mere opinion.

you also start your OP by saying showtime has been putting up great matchups. HBO has also been putting up just as many great matchups this year.

Showtime does have great depth in those divisions. (HBO has great depth in MW/LHW, etc) Alvardo, Rios and Provodnikov being a tier under elite is your opinion. They have losses just like Soto-Karass, Berto, Robert Guererro, Lopez and ortiz have losses. Saying the latter is better is just your opinion. It seems you think fighters are better on showtime just because that's your favorite network/promoter etc. which is fine. But that doesn't mean anything in your post is true.

Saying "those stars" - GGG, Bradley, JMM Pac will only take you so far when compared to Floyd, broner and canelo is again just your opinion. Not even sure what that means tbh.

i guess your point is you think the guys on showtime are going to draw better ratings and make more money ( again just an opinion) but even if they do...... Canelo can sell 5 million tickets to his next fight. so can danny garcia. But that doesn't mean either of them are better then GGG or JMM, etc. ratings/draw means nothing in terms of absolute boxing skill/talent. If it did, JCC JR would be a P4P fighter.

Not sure why a boxing fan would even care about this business side of things.