does ray leonard beat tommy hearns without dundee in his corner?

[rightsideup]

Your thoughts/ I am refering to the first fight. Another angle I want you to comment about is that ray also had the edge in having been battle tested by the great roberto duran and the brilliant wifred benitez and I think having gone thru those fights aided ray to tackle the tremendous talent of tomas hearns.

[Isaac Hunt]

After the first Duran fight where Leonard went his own way and discarded Dundee's advice and paid for it he started listening more to good advice. Without Dundee he may have lost to Hearns.

[joseph5620]

Your thoughts/ I am refering to the first fight. Another angle I want you to comment about is that ray also had the edge in having been battle tested by the great roberto duran and the brilliant wifred benitez and I think having gone thru those fights aided ray to tackle the tremendous talent of tomas hearns.

I think he would have won regardless of who was in his corner. Leonard was losing to Hearns and getting outboxed. He caught and hurt a tiring Hearns late. I don't see a trainer factoring into that. Particularly because Leonard was a very experienced fighter at that point and he knew what he needed to do. I'm certain Leonard knew he had to win by a KO or stoppage.

[Ray Corso]

Angelo Dundee was one of the best "motovators" ever! Dundee was very smart to learn the character and temperaments of the fighters he worked with! Angelo goes back into the 40s and was a cutman first then a strategist
second! He was very good at breaking down a fighter and his fighters had alot of trust in him! He also trained in all styles he was not a one dimentional trainer.

He was a huge help in the first Leonard/Hearns fight theres NO doubt about that you can see and hear his input in the corner as the fight progressed!!

He also influenced Ali greatly in Ali's earlier years!
Dundee is certainly one of THE best chief cornerman to me, he and Arcel with Brown and Eddie Futch are certainly ATG corners!! Ray.

[joseph5620]

Angelo Dundee was one of the best "motovators" ever! Dundee was very smart to learn the character and temperaments of the fighters he worked with! Angelo goes back into the 40s and was a cutman first then a strategist second! He was very good at breaking down a fighter and his fighters had alot of trust in him! He also trained in all styles he was not a one dimentional trainer. He was a huge help in the first Leonard/Hearns fight theres NO doubt about that you can see and hear his input in the corner as the fight progressed!! He also influenced Ali greatly in Ali's earlier years! Dundee is certainly one of THE best chief cornerman to me, he and Arcel with Brown and Eddie Futch are certainly ATG corners!! Ray.

Angelo Dundee was one of the best "motovators" ever! Dundee was very smart to learn the character and temperaments of the fighters he worked with! Angelo goes back into the 40s and was a cutman first then a strategist second! He was very good at breaking down a fighter and his fighters had alot of trust in him! He also trained in all styles he was not a one dimentional trainer. He was a huge help in the first Leonard/Hearns fight theres NO doubt about that you can see and hear his input in the corner as the fight progressed!! He also influenced Ali greatly in Ali's earlier years! Dundee is certainly one of THE best chief cornerman to me, he and Arcel with Brown and Eddie Futch are certainly ATG corners!! Ray.

Dundee was defintely a great trainer. One of the best and he motivated his fighters better than most trainers. But in this situation I think Leonard would have beaten Hearns regardless. On a side note, I met Dundee in 2005. He was very nice, humble, and down to earth when he didn't have to be. I feel fortunate to have met a legendary trainer. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

[Marcov]

We will never know? Does Ali beat Liston the first time without Dundee in his corner? When Ali said, cut the gloves off, I can't see, would any otther trainer get him to go on?

[SBleeder]

Really impossible to say. Would Hearns have been the fighter that he was without Manny?

[rightsideup]

Really impossible to say. Would Hearns have been the fighter that he was without Manny?

yes you are correct Manny was a special trainer as well.

[Anthony342]

Yeah true, maybe Leonard would not have been the same fighter. I've heard him say on TV that getting to work with Dundee was one of the factors that made him decide to turn pro in the first place, that and a financial need.

Would some other trainer have stayed on Leonard letting him know he needed the stoppage to win? Maybe some, maybe not others.