PBC/Haymon Elite Boxers Influence at the end of 2015

[-PBP-]

I think you will start to see it take full effect in 2-3 years. The big ticket fighters on HBO have no opponents because they are all with PBC.

[SlySlickSmooth]

Haymon is not stupid he knows how to run his business, he has built himself a very successful Concert Promotion in which he sold half if that to Live Nation for A LOT of money.

Same will likely happen to PBC, I think he will build it up slowly and the hope is to get a Major Multi Network TV Deal package. I know fans are b1tching about match ups but why would anybody spend their own Money for TV Time and also give these Networks your best match ups all for free on your dime? Screw that, again that is proof that Haymon is smart, if you really want the best match ups on your network then you will have to invest. So the best match ups will go to Showtime for now because Showtime is likely putting up money for those fights and those other networks are not invest in PBC Yet.

You always have the sickest prospects in your sig

Jarret Hurd looks like an animal in that gif.

[Eff Pandas]

Actually Top Rank turned down David Benavidez and I read that Devin Haney is working a deal to be on a couple Top Rank cards too. The up and comers most people like are guys like Verdejo Valdez Diego De La Hoya Jo Jo Diaz Jose Ramirez etc. PBC does have guys like Errol Spence who look really good too but they seem to sign guys in waves where companies like GBP and TR seem to want quality more than quality like that 8-0 guy on the Fox Sports `1 card that lost last night.

Link to TR turning down David Benavidez? That could be a funny fact in the future.

Of course not all prospects will pan out but it seems like the promoters have vastly different strategies.

Thing is there is a bigger strategy with what PBC/Haymon is doing beyond the types of prospects to sign/work with. Thats the reality you are ignoring & just think Haymon is doing like TR, GBP or ME or whoever is doing & some of these guys will hit & some will miss. Its just simple logic & math that a certain % of guys are gonna rise to the top. If you got more high level prospects than everyone else you are gonna get more alphabet ranked guys than everyone else & if you got more alphabet ranked guys than everyone else than you are gonna have more legitimate ranked guys than everyone else & if you got more legitimate ranked guys than you got more of the power in boxing than anyone else & you limit other promoters & fighters ability to control their own trajectory in the sport which is gonna limit their power. Its some multi layer boa constrictor type **** going on.

And the only hope for most anti-PBC guys is if this fund runs outta money, but the disturbing reality there for anti-PBC guys is if Haymon is 3 or 4 years into this plan & things look even better than the stats I posted here by that time & he's made a mark in the UK (which is supposed to break ground in 2016) & maybe one of the Asian countries or Mexico for the smaller weight divisions then its a safe assumption (imo) they will just give him another $400+M to finish the job. The stakes here for control of boxing are huge enough where that would likely be given with lil discussion (again imo).

[DreamerUSA]

No one entity needs to get all of the talent. They just have to get enough of the American talent to land a lucrative American TV deal. Sprinkle in some of the best international talent and you'd have the premier league in the world. Basketball is a worldwide sport too. The NBA doesn't have every single one of the best players in the world, but it has most of them and is recognized as the place where most of the best go to play.

IF Haymon can land a 50 or 100 million a year TV deal for PBC, that is way way more than HBO's entire budget. So *most* of the best talent will want their piece of that pie.

It's a slippery slope. Haymon will continue to grow and grow while HBO continues to shrink and shrink until HBO decides it isn't worth the aggravation and allocates those funds elsewhere.

I'm one that is kind of on the fence with all of this, but one mistake I think a lot of people on these boards make, is that somehow the US is the center of the sport. There will need to be a lot more than just a sprinkling of international talent if you want a league that truly has the best fighters on offer. I actually had a thread on this a while back showing the descrepancy on the perception vs the reality. In the end, as a fan, I just want to see the best fight the best, but if it is going to be American centric, it is doomed to failure imo.

I also think it is a mistake to compare say the NFL/NBA to boxing. Football and basketball are American sports. Basketball has gone international in the last 20+ years, but America is still where you go to see the best. This is'nt the case with boxing.

[Eff Pandas]

I'm one that is kind of on the fence with all of this, but one mistake I think a lot of people on these boards make, is that somehow the US is the center of the sport. There will need to be a lot more than just a sprinkling of international talent if you want a league that truly has the best fighters on offer. I actually had a thread on this a while back showing the descrepancy on the perception vs the reality. In the end, as a fan, I just want to see the best fight the best, but if it is going to be American centric, it is doomed to failure imo.

Definitely agree mostly. Doomed to failure seems overly dramatic, cuz it does appear the sport is largely American centric when it comes to money in boxing & I don't think that is drastically going to change anytime soon. Many of the best still come to the US for their biggest purses & opportunities.

But sure there is a nice lil thing going on in the UK, Germany seems to be doing well & I think Russia is destined to be the next big boxing market (if I miss a fight & can't find it & look on youtube for it & find it there is like an 80% chance the guys talking will be speaking Russian, idk how scientific that is, but it suggests to me Russia gots a HUGE interest in boxing) that China was hyped to be. So for sure professional boxing is world wide successfully today like its never been & you can't act like that isn't the reality or going to expand even more.

Thus an elite boxing league would obviously need to have worldwide influence. And I would suggest you dig a lil deeper if you are legit curious at the web of influence PBC/Haymon has just by looking into some of the many names I mentioned at the beginning of this thread. You'll quickly see that while most of the guys you know are US based & US born there are a great many boxers you might be vaguely aware of or not know of at all that are from all over the world.

Haymon has connections to promoters around the globe & in boxing strongholds: Matchroom Boxing/UK, GYM Promotions/Canada, PR Best Boxing/Puerto Rico, Maravillabox/Spain. Promociones del Pueblo/Mexico & Sampson Boxing/Argentina among other places.

PBC/Haymon has the most impressive mixture of former Olympians from all over the globe like I've never seen under one outfit. I think I counted at one point & he had around 20-25 former Olympians. Many US obviously cuz I think he grabbed about half the US Olympic team in 2012, but from all over, bunch of Puerto Rican Olympics, Cubans, Badou Jack fought for Gambia ffs, lotsa places doe.

And there seem to be particular strong Puerto Rican (last I heard Haymon had all the PR title holders since Cotto lost), Cuban & Polish boxer bases with PBC/Haymon. The UK signed fighters are growing, I wouldn't be surprised to see Joshua, Eubank or Brook sign with Haymon in 2016. And PBC will be entering the UK market next year too.

I also think it is a mistake to compare say the NFL/NBA to boxing. Football and basketball are American sports. Basketball has gone international in the last 20+ years, but America is still where you go to see the best. This is'nt the case with boxing.

The comparisons I've made to other sports are largely based on the logic that its f#cking stupid that the NFL, NBA, UFC, MLB, PGA & so many other sports have figured out this simple logical fact that if you put most of the best athletes or competitors of whatever sport under one umbrella you have created a product thats overwhelming overall better for everyone involved, from the fans to the athletes to the investors & somehow boxing hasn't put that together yet. Boxing remains a circus like atmosphere with no quality control like these other sports have established by creating an elite league of their particular sports athletes. Its beyond obvious boxing unified is better than boxing divided.

[killakali]

Link to TR turning down David Benavidez? That could be a funny fact in the future.



Thing is there is a bigger strategy with what PBC/Haymon is doing beyond the types of prospects to sign/work with. Thats the reality you are ignoring & just think Haymon is doing like TR, GBP or ME or whoever is doing & some of these guys will hit & some will miss. Its just simple logic & math that a certain % of guys are gonna rise to the top. If you got more high level prospects than everyone else you are gonna get more alphabet ranked guys than everyone else & if you got more alphabet ranked guys than everyone else than you are gonna have more legitimate ranked guys than everyone else & if you got more legitimate ranked guys than you got more of the power in boxing than anyone else & you limit other promoters & fighters ability to control their own trajectory in the sport which is gonna limit their power. Its some multi layer boa constrictor type **** going on.

And the only hope for most anti-PBC guys is if this fund runs outta money, but the disturbing reality there for anti-PBC guys is if Haymon is 3 or 4 years into this plan & things look even better than the stats I posted here by that time & he's made a mark in the UK (which is supposed to break ground in 2016) & maybe one of the Asian countries or Mexico for the smaller weight divisions then its a safe assumption (imo) they will just give him another $400+M to finish the job. The stakes here for control of boxing are huge enough where that would likely be given with lil discussion (again imo).

u do a lot of speculating. Do you have his business plan lol? How can you say getting another 400mil in funding is a safe assumption? Do you know how hard raising venture capital is? Have you ever done it or even helped someone with fund raising? It is very difficult as I have been with a family member while he has done it. That type of speculation isn't highly probable at all. Remember the guy at Waddle and Reed who started this deal works for Haymon now and not Waddle and Reed.

I think Haymon looks at it like even if this is all fails he is raking in his 10-25% fee per fighter in purses (every deal is structured different with the fighters) and make over 100mil himself plus the other ways he makes money on these deals. If the venture fails he is already even richer than he was and he can release most of his lower level prospects and keep the top 50 or so and go back to using Show and maybe get back on HBO. There is my speculation that seems a lot more realistic than yours.

Another rumor I heard is that he wants to get this thing going and sell off the whole PBC and then quit promoting and just manage fighters but who knows if that is true.

[Eff Pandas]

u do a lot of speculating.

Thats all anyone is able to do with PBC related ****. You are doing it to just with a more pessimistic outlook. You've said PBC is f#cked like 8 times probably in this thread. I'd considered that much more speculative than my maybe it works, maybe it don't work stance while thinking about how it could or will work.

How can you say getting another 400mil in funding is a safe assumption? Do you know how hard raising venture capital is?

As was my example if Haymon gets even further with this & branches out to other countries I don't think you just randomly cut the cord if the money runs out. Sometimes there is a second phase of investing in businesses like this where a burn rate is going on & the upside is big. I think elite level boxing is a multibillion dollar business easily. Investors would make their money back fairly quick. And the initial investment was 400M-500M or w/e it was & that represented 1% or less than 1% of their fund value so if there is as positive movement in the next 2 years as there has been in the last 9 months I don't think its a huge jump in logic to throw another .5%-1% into the pool in 2017 or 2018 to finish the job.

I think Haymon looks at it like even if this is all fails he is raking in his 10-25% fee per fighter in purses (every deal is structured different with the fighters) and make over 100mil himself plus the other ways he makes money on these deals.

If the venture fails he is already even richer than he was and he can release most of his lower level prospects and keep the top 50 or so and go back to using Show and maybe get back on HBO. There is my speculation that seems a lot more realistic than yours.

I don't necessarily think that money is going into his pocket first off. I wouldn't be shocked if the investors are requiring all, most or some of that money be put back into the PBC bankroll.

But sure he's in a no lose situation, 1)he creates this elite league of boxing & has a direct pipeline into a billion+ dollar sports business or 2)he doesn't & he has some of the biggest names in the sport to keep on doing what he was doing previous to PBC. Haymon wins either way so there is no reason not to have a legit plan to try to accomplish what PBC is attempting & giving yourself the best chance of success doing what just about every other sport has done already, quit being a poorly ran circus sport & create a league of your elite talent.

Another rumor I heard is that he wants to get this thing going and sell off the whole PBC and then quit promoting and just manage fighters but who knows if that is true.

I could definitely see this.