Who has a greater legacy? Hopkins vs Jones Jr

[LacedUp]

Both Tito and Oscar won titles at MW before facing Bhop, so they didn't move up to face him. McCallum was washed up, Toney was weightdrained (his own fault, I know) and Hopkins wasn't a top P4P fighter when they fought in 93.

I'm not only talking about Tito and Oscar. I'll give him probs for both of those, because they were good fighters (especially Tito at that stage). But he hasn't really beaten anyone great who campaigned at MW for a longer time. His best wins campaigned at WW or even lower sometimes. Look at Brown for example. Not only was he way past his prime, but was really a career welter. Jackson was well past his sell by date, same as you claimed McCallum to be.

His best wins at MW would probably be Oscar, Tito, Johnson, G. Johnson, Holmes and Brown. Are they ATG MWs? Any of them? No. Other than these guys, a look down his record will show you a list of incredibly weak MWs. But it was a very weak era as well as the Super Middleweight divison was really the place to be through the 90s after it was created.

With regards to Toney, that's just an excuse. I know he was weight drained, but that is not Jones' fault in anyway shape or form. Jones dominated a prime James Toney like a man vs a boy. That win is better than anything Hopkins has on his entire resume. At the time Hopkins and Jones fought, he was considered a very good fighter. He had gotten himself in a position to fight for the MW belt, and was older than Jones, so it's not like he was fresh of the ABC.

I take nothing away from Hopkins, he's a great champion and has done a lot of things for boxing. But Jones overall entertainment value, winning belts in more weightclasses and beating several ATGs, incl. Hopkins, puts him slightly ahead imo.

[Boxing Goat]

Roy tarnished his legacy, all i'm pointing out. He could've left when he was a king, or even after Antonio dropped him. But like many, he had to embarrass himself.

He has only tarnished his legacy to those narrow minded enough to think he actually lost when he still was in his prime.

All fighters lose if they stay in the game long enough and face top competition.

[Boxing Goat]

Straight up.



Yeah why do people keep trotting out that crap about Roy tarnishing his legacy? Almost all the best p4p guys were losing to people that wouldn't have sniffed their cracks in their primes. Nobody around now who bothers learning about the sport is forgetting about Charles and Pep and Robinson. RJJ's no different or Holyfield or whoever. What they did and who they were ain't going anywhere even if they fight till they're 60 and get knocked out 50 times. They're not erasing history. And anybody care if Hopkins loses to Dawson in his late forties? Not me. He's still a great fighter.

Exactly, Ali lost to a 6-0-1 fighter when he was 1 year older than Roy was when he got knocked out by Tarver.

People seem to forget that not every fighter ages the same and some styles, like Hopkins.

[Boxing Goat]

Both Tito and Oscar won titles at MW before facing Bhop, so they didn't move up to face him. McCallum was washed up, Toney was weightdrained (his own fault, I know) and Hopkins wasn't a top P4P fighter when they fought in 93.

That's subjective.

16? Are we counting amateur career now?

Stupid argument. How many casuals know about Willie Pep and Archie Moore?

You can pretty much derate anyones resume like that.

At the time Roy beat Hopkins, he was on a run and it was both of their first title shots. They both got better afterwards and it was clear that Roy had the advantage for about a decade following that fight.

In the Toney fight, the weight loss was just an excuse. He got bested by a better fighter. Humiliated actually.

Mccallum was getting on in age when Roy fought him but he was still at the top of the division. Roy shut him out on the cards and dropped him when he had never been stopped before.

See, two can play that game.