There has not been a Lineal Heavyweight Champ for almost 10 years.

[Prince_Pugilist]

Very interesting discussion. Fact is, the heavyweight lineage became difficult to trace the moment alphabet titles were included and the lineal champion was normally the guy who held all the major titles (WBA, WBC, IBF and more recently WBO). It's true that the last guy to hold that title was Lennox Lewis and Wlad can not become the official undisputed champion unless he gains the WBC title, which he won't (rightfully so) because the WBC champ is his own brother.

Its pretty fair to say Wlad is the number one guy in the division and Vitali is number 2 (not going into head to heads here). For me, that is enough to make him THE heavyweight champion of our time, beating all contenders put in his way for half a decade or more. It would be unfair to have his legacy soured because he refused to fight his own flesh and blood and was willing to keep a promise he made to his mother. Keeping this in mind, a new lineage starts with Wlad. If someone was to beat Wlad and Vitali was to retire, the lineal champion would be the man who beat Wlad.

[Joeyzagz]

Wouldnt it been cool if George Foreman never had to face #2 Ali, and could stay champ by beating #3 Frazier over and over again. His career would be so much easier...

Wlad is a fake champ. Vitali dilutes half the competition for him and Wlad gets to take all the credit as a sole lineal champ.

[Targaryen]

I don't know why people are putting so much emphasis on the WBC title, if Vitali retires and someone **** like Stiverne picks up that belt, meanwhile Wlad beats Povetkin and Haye (again) Wlad would be lineal champ without the belt. That's the point of lineal champ, if doesn't rely on a specific belt, it's not a tangible asset

[edgarg]

No because Lewis became Lineal Champion by beating Briggs, who was the lineal champion, who beat foreman who was the lineal champion, who beat moorer, who beat bowe, who beat holyfield, who beat douglas, who beat tyson, who beat spinks, who beat holmes, who beat Ali.

Do you even understand what linearity is?

Dickhead.

Mr. Hickey rides again playing in all the top theatres. You're slipping up Hickey. You head the topic by saying as a FACT that there's been no lineal champion since 2004 (what a job I had over the years insisting that it was "lineal" and not"linear'....) A few posts later you admit that it's merely your OPINION

Foreman had NO TITLE when he lost to Briggs, and hadn't had one for at least 3-4 years. He was stripped after beating Moorer, and stripped again of another title after scraping through against Axel Schultz on a single point majority . I think he refused to go through with a rematch.

My memory failed me here, How did Briggs become Lineal Champ. I know he lost to Lewis just a few months after beating Foreman, his next fight I think.

A boxer shouldn't be able to hold a lineal title without also having a real title. There can be concensus champs, but a lineal descent must he inherited through legitimate conquest, or the result between the two top contenders.

As for Lewis, I seem to recall that whilst he was the champ, he refused to fight several other champions like John Ruiz, Chris Byrd, etc both very respectable and very tough customers.

I don't think it's important anyway.Your avid desire to see two loving brothers kill each other over a bauble for your unhealthy gratification, is a bit "sick-making". Do you also have strange dreams.....

[Daļa]

No because Lewis became Lineal Champion by beating Briggs, who was the lineal champion, who beat foreman who was the lineal champion, who beat moorer, who beat bowe, who beat holyfield, who beat douglas, who beat tyson, who beat spinks, who beat holmes, who beat Ali.

Do you even understand what linearity is?

Dickhead.

You're right but...

Holmes-Ali was a joke and you know it.
Spinks barely beat an old version of Holmes far past his prime.
Tyson destroyed a light hw, not an hw champ'.
Douglas beat a very limited version of Tyson who was the shadow of himself.
Holyfield beat an fat, unmotivated version of Douglas.
Bowe-Holy I, good fight.
Bowe-Holy II good fight too
Moorer beat an heart patient ready for the hospital.
Foreman beat by k.o Moorer but then...
Schultz beat Foreman and was robbed; Foreman was robbed by Briggs...

You're free to see in that mess a lineage but it's an artificial 'one.
What if Lewis make his comeback now vs Wlad? Wlad would be lineal champ' 'cause of another joke lineage fight?

Accomplishment is worthy. Face the best and beat the best at theirs bests.

[Skittlez]

People do tend to take on Wlad's chin all the time. It's not great, no secret there but it is far from what people are trying to represent.

Wlad was never KOed. Every time he was down he got up under 10 sec. In sanders fight he was down 4 times and he got up 4 times. He was getting down over and over again as by the time his defense wasn't that good and he was slightly inexperienced to know what to do to survive a round. He tried to box immediately after he got up.

Now in the recent fights he did take some clean big shots from big punchers. He took a couple of big shots from Haye (who is big puncher) and he did take a big clean punch from the giant on steroids (Wach). It doesn't get much worse than that. He didn't walk thorough those punches but he survived them very well.

I find it very hard to believe Vitali can take him. Wlad is faster, moves better and his intrinsic technique is better. I would give some chance to 2008/09 Vitali chance but I would clearly favor Wlad.

He was never Plankquaioed because the refs did mercy stoppages.
You honestly think that Wlad would have 'kept on going' if the ref didn't stop the Sanders and Brewster fights?

Dude.. Wlad was in a semi coma .. and didn't know what was happening.. DIDN'T YOU WATCH the Kltsichkos documentary..
Wlad himself said 'I DON'T KNOW WHERE I WAS, I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WAS STANDING UP AGAINST SANDERS'

He was gone.. one more hit and his career would have ended.

If the ref allow Wlad to get hit one more time.. he would have been out for like 20 minutes.
against Brewster or Sanders.

[Jack Napier]

Wlad is the champ, Vit has a paper title
no need for him to get the last belt, though he will when Vit retires
Wlad has clearly established himself as the legit HW king
can't penalize him for not fighting his brother
there's absolutely 0 confusion over which one of them is the real champ

[Skittlez]

You're right but...

Holmes-Ali was a joke and you know it.
Spinks barely beat an old version of Holmes far past his prime.
Tyson destroyed a light hw, not an hw champ'.
Douglas beat a very limited version of Tyson who was the shadow of himself.
Holyfield beat an fat, unmotivated version of Douglas.
Bowe-Holy I, good fight.
Bowe-Holy II good fight too
Moorer beat an heart patient ready for the hospital.
Foreman beat by k.o Moorer but then...
Schultz beat Foreman and was robbed; Foreman was robbed by Briggs...

You're free to see in that mess a lineage but it's an artificial 'one.
What if Lewis make his comeback now vs Wlad? Wlad would be lineal champ' 'cause of another joke lineage fight?

Accomplishment is worthy. Face the best and beat the best at theirs bests.

Edit. Later post.
with more info.

[edgarg]

Wlad is the champ, Vit has a paper title
no need for him to get the last belt, though he will when Vit retires
Wlad has clearly established himself as the legit HW king
can't penalize him for not fighting his brother
there's absolutely 0 confusion over which one of them is the real champ

You need to understand that in Hickey's "mind" there's always confusion. Yes, that word describes it exacly. And, of course, he has a mischievous, malicious streak in him as well. Likes to make outrageous statements like this topic, and see what happens. Otherwise he's a good guy, just Lewis-happy.

[Skittlez]

Ok here we go.

Judging from Ring Rankings and various Belt rankings.

After Lewis's retirement.

From 2004-2008
First half of Wlad's 'era'.

The best heavyweights are : In no particular order:
Vitali Klitscko( For a very short time prior to retirement)
James Toney (lol what a division)
Sergei Lyakhovich
Sugar Nickali Valvuev
Shannon Briggs
Oleg Maskaev
Sam Peter
Alexander Povetkin
Lamont Brewster
John Ruiz

out of all these from 2004-2008
Wlad fought who?
Peter-Brewster
He lost to Brewster.


From

2008 to Present
the best heavyweights from Ring Rankings and various Title rankings
are
in no particular order:

Alexander Povetkin
David Haye
Vitali Klithsco
Thomaz Adamek
Eddie Chambers
Alexander Dimitrenko
Chris Arreloa
Denis Boystov
Robert Helenius
Ruslan Chagav
Sultan Ibr

Recent:
Pulev
Price
Fury

Wlad did pick up the pace from 2008-2012.
Since he fought 4 legit top heavyweights in
Chambers;Haye:Sultan:Ruslan
but overall he still missed out on a large number.

From 2008-2012. Wladimir never fought the true #2 and missed out on a lot of top heavyweights.


Wladimir's BEST WIN by far was still in 2000 against Prime Chris Byrd.

Chris Byrd was never the true #2 in 2005-2007ish.
That is just Klittard lies.

Byrd went on to lose 3 of his 4 fights after 2006.. how the hell was he consider a top heavyweight?

Byrd was considered a 'good' heavyweight in 2000. That was it.
His two career defining moments are

1- Making Vitali Quit and
2- Getting brutally knocked out by Ike.