Let's look at Joe Calzaghe's supposed "greatness"!

[IronDanHamza]

Not really. When there are four beltholders who typically hold it down and you've got market splits, top five guys are hard to come by. Guys like Mitchell and Woodhall and Reid could all have been in that range and in some cases were a hair off. It doesn't change much. Calzaghe's resume strength is in being top heavy and consistent. It's weakness is in being part of a split title era and reigning in between good eras at Super Middle generally. Hopkins had a similar problem in his reign prior to the tourney at 160. Hopkins's resume has exploded in awesomeness at Light Heavy, doubling the quality wins on his record.

It's one reason why Hopkins will likely end up regarded inside the top 30 fighters of all time and Calzaghe will end up somewhere low in a top 100 or just outside in a nod to his cleaning out a class.

Both great fighters. Both will be integral to all-time debates (one across board, the other in a class). They are the ultimate example of varying degrees of greatness inside even a single era.

I respectfully disagree.

Joe Calzaghe didn't do his best to fight the best. He was more than happy with Frank Warren giving him bum after bum to fight and rack up title defences.

These are the fighters that were available during his reign who were in the top 5;

Sven Ottke
Bruno Girard
Antwun Echols
Eric Lucas
Anthony Mundine
Danny Green
Marcus Beyer
Liborado Andrade
Lucia Bute
Thomas Tate

Now I'm not saying he should have fought them all nor am I saying that it's his fault. But the fact is, they were available, and he only fought 2 fighters in his entire reigh that were ranked in the Top 5 at 168. To me, that's a joke.

I think anyone would be hard pressed to find someone with close to that many title defences whilst only fighting 2 fighters that were ranked in the top 5.

He fought a few top 10 guys and close to top 5 but only 2 whilst they were actually ranked there.

The fact remains for one reason or another his resume is pretty empty. With very few top ranked competition in there.

[New England]

I respectfully disagree.

Joe Calzaghe didn't do his best to fight the best. He was more than happy with Frank Warren giving him bum after bum to fight and rack up title defences.

These are the fighters that were available during his reign who were in the top 5;

Sven Ottke
Bruno Girard
Antwun Echols
Eric Lucas
Anthony Mundine
Danny Green
Marcus Beyer
Liborado Andrade
Lucia Bute
Thomas Tate

Now I'm not saying he should have fought them all nor am I saying that it's his fault. But the fact is, they were available, and he only fought 2 fighters in his entire reigh that were ranked in the Top 5 at 168. To me, that's a joke.

I think anyone would be hard pressed to find someone with close to that many title defences whilst only fighting 2 fighters that were ranked in the top 5.

He fought a few top 10 guys and close to top 5 but only 2 whilst they were actually ranked there.

The fact remains for one reason or another his resume is pretty empty. With very few top ranked competition in there.

i tend to be on board with you on this one, danhamza.


much more could have been done with joe calzaghe
maybe head to light HW earlier
perhaps come to america earlier
i'm not saying those were the answers to getting him bigger fights earlier in his career
we'd have to go year by year to figure out sensible directions for his career


outside of two fights in the united states
one in denmark
and one in germany,
he was a UK domestic that stayed at home



as Crold put it, his resume is top heavy
lacy, bika, manfredo jr. ( ) kessler, hopkins, and roy jone's corpse is a nice little run to end an undefeated career, and you cant flag the man for hanging them up. after all, he had almost 50 fights and over 250 rds as a pro


not to open another book here,
who remained for calzaghe to fight, anyhow? either before the time of his retirement or in the brief window of opportunity after?
chad dawson? hardly capable of generating roy jones and bernard hopkins money. i was at his last fight in CT (his home state) and he was boo'ed.
carl froch? he just wasn't there yet. and an untimely stinker with dirrell that many thought froch lost didn't help matters
oh and that super six thing
bute was knocked out by liberado andrade and saved by a ref, and wasn't in a position to lure calzaghe out of retirement at the time
and then joe was busted taking drugs



a note: upon checking out joe's boxrec for the first time in a good while i was shocked to find 32 stoppages on calzaghe's record. all this talk on the bscene about how frail his punches are probably clouded my memory

they're probably primarily of the "get this guy off of me," sort, but that's still impressive for a guy who honestly cant crack an egg and has hands like a nine year old girl

[The Surgeon]

Lets take a look at Joe Calzaghe's supposed Greatness...


I have a better idea. Lets pretend the gimp never existed.

[PRINCE O' PROSE]

A couple of things, son.

Here is a quote from you.

"he SMASHED jeff lacy
absolutely crushed him. essentially ended his career over 12 rounds. lacy was being billed by showtime as the next tyson, and he was knocking everybody out brutally (stopped vanderpool, robin ried, pemberton, other regular names at the top of the division at the time)
lacy pissed blood after that fight
and his face never looked the same"

Now why would you go into detail and put such great emphasis on what Jeff Lacy did prior to facing Calzaghe, even so ...*snip*...

I don't think he was trying to say Lacy was some worldbeater. I think he was pointing more to the extreme manner in which Joe dismantled and pretty much finished a fellow titlist who was a credible contender and a decent, well-rated fighter with KO threat.

I didn't get any of what you're trying to project onto his post from what he actually said in it. None.

So you just wasted a whole ton of laboured, hostile posturing. In a scholarly subforum like this one, why not just take a measured tone? It's not as if everything you say is rational, anyway - you've posted some pretty outlandish stuff in topics here.

Simmer down and respect the subforum.

[CarlosG815]

I don't think he was trying to say Lacy was some worldbeater. I think he was pointing more to the extreme manner in which Joe dismantled and pretty much finished a fellow titlist who was a credible contender and a decent, well-rated fighter with KO threat.

I didn't get any of what you're trying to project onto his post from what he actually said in it. None.

So you just wasted a whole ton of laboured, hostile posturing. In a scholarly subforum like this one, why not just take a measured tone? It's not as if everything you say is rational, anyway - you've posted some pretty outlandish stuff in topics here.

Simmer down and respect the subforum.

So then what did you get from the post? The point is, the extreme manner of beating a "nobody" means nothing. That's what my point was. As I said, it's like trying to talk about Tyson and mentioning what he did to David Jaco or Michael Johnson - it's not going to help the case. You say he was a titlist and a KO threat but the fact is that he was nothing but a hypejob, a worse hypejob than Kirkland or any other guy that people try to tout as the next big thing in boxing.

My claims may be outlandish, but they're usually pertaining to legit greats like Joe Frazier, Jack Dempsey, etc. not the likes of a phony of Calzaghes caliber.

[CarlosG815]

a note: upon checking out joe's boxrec for the first time in a good while i was shocked to find 32 stoppages on calzaghe's record. all this talk on the bscene about how frail his punches are probably clouded my memory

Joe Calzaghe has some of the worst stoppages in the history of the sport, many of which are a downright disgrace. Most of them aren't legit stoppages, they are products of crooked boxing via fixed fights.

And to answer who he should have fought... Yeah Chad Dawson wouldn't have been a bad matchup at the time he retired, seeing as how he managed to duck every top fighter in their prime throughout his career. Glen Johnson at the time of Joe's retirement was still a top guy and would have been a good fight. Joe ducked him several times.

[CarlosG815]

Look at what a joke this guy is.



Most of these are downright shameful.

[$Bullsfam$]

I respectfully disagree.

Joe Calzaghe didn't do his best to fight the best. He was more than happy with Frank Warren giving him bum after bum to fight and rack up title defences.

These are the fighters that were available during his reign who were in the top 5;

Sven Ottke
Bruno Girard
Antwun Echols
Eric Lucas
Anthony Mundine
Danny Green
Marcus Beyer
Liborado Andrade
Lucia Bute
Thomas Tate

Now I'm not saying he should have fought them all nor am I saying that it's his fault. But the fact is, they were available, and he only fought 2 fighters in his entire reigh that were ranked in the Top 5 at 168. To me, that's a joke.

I think anyone would be hard pressed to find someone with close to that many title defences whilst only fighting 2 fighters that were ranked in the top 5.

He fought a few top 10 guys and close to top 5 but only 2 whilst they were actually ranked there.

The fact remains for one reason or another his resume is pretty empty. With very few top ranked competition in there.

Great ass post right here folks. Why the hell would Hopkins or Roy Jones be ducking him when he was still a long way from proving he was a great champion by fighting top 5 fighters. He didn't do that until like the last 2 years of his career. And that's when he finally got his shot at Hopkins when he finally had the balls to step up, but of course Hopkins lost his speed by then.

It's just ridiculous though he had 21 defenses around the same time as somebody elses 20 defenses at the same weight. That's a joke. How could they not cross paths? They were both scared to death of each other.

[PRINCE O' PROSE]

So then what did you get from the post? The point is, the extreme manner of beating a "nobody" means nothing. That's what my point was. As I said, it's like trying to talk about Tyson and mentioning what he did to David Jaco or Michael Johnson - it's not going to help the case. You say he was a titlist and a KO threat but the fact is that he was nothing but a hypejob, a worse hypejob than Kirkland or any other guy that people try to tout as the next big thing in boxing.

My claims may be outlandish, but they're usually pertaining to legit greats like Joe Frazier, Jack Dempsey, etc. not the likes of a phony of Calzaghes caliber.

Lacy was overhyped, yes.

But overhype does two things; it makes fans/analysts overrate fighters contemporaneously, but it can also make people underrate fighters (to varying degrees) in retrospect.


Don't get me wrong, Lacy wasn't the force of nature he was cracked up to be coming into that fight, but he was a credible contender in his prime who held a title, a solid fighter.

And to answer your question in the bold (a second time), I think the poster was just pointing to the manner in which Joe razed this young, strong contender/titlist's career to the ground, not just that he beat him, but the manner in which he did it was utterly complete and somewhat ruthless.


Joe Calzaghe is a bit of a strange one, a curious mix of pros and cons. Some people think much too highly of the fighter and what he did, some think much too little.


Joe's only a phony if you're looking at the spurious claim for All-Time Greatness made on his behalf. As a Hall Of Famer, he's legitimate.

[jermainerambo]

People want to say Calzaghe has a great undefeated record, GREATEST SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT EVER right? Well I took a look at the ring magazines top 10 super middleweights since 1997 when Joe first became a top super middleweight by beating a 31 Chris Eubank who arguably wasn't even a top fighter anymore. It was for a vacant title.

Feel free to check my research for yourself. Here. Just go down and check the annual rankings of the year.

1998: Joes ranked #2.
Fought: Branko Sobot(unranked), Juan Ferreyra(unranked)

1999: Joes ranked #2
Fought: Robin Reid(ranked #9, NEVER REMATCHED after controversial win), Rick Thornberry(unranked),

2000: Ranked #2
Fought: David Starie(unranked), Omar Shieka(unranked), Richie Woodhall(unranked)

2001: Ranked #2
Fought: Mario Viet(unranked), Will McIntyre(unranked)

2002: Ranked #1 because Svettes challengers got worse then Joes..
Fought: Charles Brewer(ranked #6), Miguel Jimenez(unranked), Tocker Pudwill(unranked)

2003: Ranked #1
Fought: Bryon Mitchell(ranked #6)

2004: Ranked #1
Fought: Mger Mkrtchyan(unranked), Kabery Salem(unranked)

2005: Ranked #1
Fought: Mario Viet(unranked rematch), Evans Ashira(unranked)

2006: ranked #1
Fought: Jeff Lacey(#3), Sakio Bika(unranked)

2007: Ranked #1
Fought: Peter Manfredo(unranked), Mikkel Kessler(#2)

2008: Moved to Light Heavyweight
Fought: Bernard Hopkins(#1), Roy Jones Jr(unranked seriously shot legend)

So were saying somebody who fought 5 top 10 ranked opponents in 21 defenses when he was ranked 1 or 2, and only 2 of them were top 5, is an ATG? 5 years of his prime were against unranked opponents.

Hopkins is his best win who was in his 40's. It's still a great win because of what Hopkins just did but Hopkins didn't have the speed he once had. Obviously lost a step, gave Joe the fight of his life and arguably beat him on technique alone. Then Joe never rematched to settle the score once and for all.

Instead he fought Roy Jones who was out of his prime after he got KO'd by Johnson. He was seriously shot, no speed or reflexes anymore, came off a win against shot blown up Trinidad.

So LMAO, is this really what you want to call ATG?

you can't reject reality and substitute your own


joe calzaghe is the LONGEST-REIGNING WORLD CHAMPION OF THE MODERN ERA second longest reign in history

joe calzaghe won the WBO,WBA,WBC,IBF,IBO AND RING MAGAZINE BELTS AT 168 AN 175

calzaghe is the ONLY ONE IN HISTORY TO BECOME UNDISPUTED SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION

calzaghe is the 1 OUT OF THE 4 MEN IN HISTORY TO HAVE OVER 20 TITLE DEFENCES

calzaghe was the SECOND BOXER IN HISTORY TO WIN 3 CONSECUTIVE ABA TITLE AT 3 DIFFERENT WEIGHTS

calzaghe BEAT THE LONGEST-REIGNING MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION IN HISTORY

calzaghe is the 1 OUT OF ONLY 3 BOXERS IN HISTORY TO BE UNDISPUTED AND UNDEFEATED WORLD CHAMPION

calzaghe was CHAMPION FOR 11YRS AND RETIRED UNDEFEATED 46-0


joe calzaghe beat a 31yr old guy with over 20 championship fights to become champion

calzaghe is the only one to beat bernard hopkins at light heavyweight


joe calzaghe is the greatest fighter of his generation he beat everybody who dared to fight him.....you just have to learn to live with this so stop and accept reality and do the math 46-0=46