Amateur Boxing - USA, Puerto Rico, Mexico

[Eff Pandas]

not at the moment. and two of your best current pros, ward and andrade, just happen to be guys with deep amateur backgrounds. world class amateur experience is invaluable for a young fighter and i think some of the USA's next generation will suffer for a lack of it. who has the advantage, a 26 year old who has already honed his skills in several international tournaments or a 26 year old who has not fought anyone who punched back since he was a junior fighter?

Most of the best guys got deep amateur backgrounds (~100 or more amateur fights). There are very few guys who even turn pro with only junior-level amateur fights so imo thats more an anomaly than anything else. I just think there is a law of diminishing returns when a guy has too many open fights. A athletes career is a finite thing. You only got so much time before your body is saying "wtf are we doing bro" & some of these guys are using up some of that finite time in the amateurs nowadays.

[NEETzsche]

Most of the best guys got deep amateur backgrounds (~100 or more amateur fights). There are very few guys who even turn pro with only junior-level amateur fights so imo thats more an anomaly than anything else. I just think there is a law of diminishing returns when a guy has too many open fights. A athletes career is a finite thing. You only got so much time before your body is saying "wtf are we doing bro" & some of these guys are using up some of that finite time in the amateurs nowadays.

amateur boxing is less physical and less violent than pro boxing even without the headgear. even boxers who turned pro young and had a bunch of success, like canelo and estrada, will probably find themselves burnt out sooner than their counterparts who stayed amateur into their mid-20s. another facet is that both of those guys, despite their obvious quality, notably fight naively at times, which is something that might have been ironed out during a longer amateur career

[ShoulderRoll]

who has the advantage, a 26 year old who has already honed his skills in several international tournaments or a 26 year old who has not fought anyone who punched back since he was a junior fighter?

Vasyl Lomachenko, despite his deep and vaunted amateur career, lacked the experience to handle an old vet in Salido.

And Canelo has managed to rise to the top of the boxing world at age 25 without an amateur career. He did it by turning pro early and learning on the job.

So there's more than one way to skin a cat.

[ElMeroChingon]

Where are these countries at? I watched the worlds championship last month and none of these countries even made it to the semifinals.

Supposedly they have a good farm system to create professionals but it's utter trash. At one point the U.S. was right there with Russia (Soviet Union) and Cuba.

And right now there are no helmets in amateurs and the scoring point system is no longer there. So what gives?

My opinion is that US and Puerto Rican fighters have become too soft and the majority of Mexican fighters are built for the long run and not for 3 rounds, their plodding/brawling style can't tire you out in 3 rounds.

PS: I know there are exceptions. There was a good Mexican kid that fought Loma a few years back and now is the best prospect out of Mexico, forgot his name, he is a joy to watch.

Why make chump change while possibly getting hurt, getting a career changing cut, when you can make decent money padding up your record as a pro.

The amateurs should be a safer place to sharpen up, otherwise there is no point. Too many benefits towards going pro.

[pesticid]

Ahhh ok $5k sounds much more reasonable than the $5M you mentioned before.

I mean but ok so if you win you get $5k, but if you are good enough to win these level fights in the WSB you are more than ready to turn pro & likely get a 5 or 6 digit signing bonus, a monthly stipend of 1.5k-2k (win or don't win your fights, although if you lose it won't last obviously, but the competition will be easier than the WSB for probably 2 or 3 years) & a car &/or apartment.

I imagine there is more going on pay-wise with how some of these amateur programs work outside of the west cuz the WSB hasn't been around THAT long & there have been these "professional-like" 28yr old amateurs with a dozen years open experience in some countries for awhile. I mean **** man how does a 28 yr old man "make it" in amateur boxing which pays you no money (just took care of some expenses) til recently if not some state sponsored $ coming in for you? Or were they just that passionate about not making money or amateur boxing? Granted Cuba gots its own lil vacuum there, but there are other places that got old ass late 20's/early 30's amateurs with 300+ fights.

Amateurs get paid monthly and per tournament depending on their results. Additionally, when amateur boxers get sent as sparring partners to another country or club's camp (speaking of Europe) they get even more money. The more active and successful fighters once they retire receive a monthly pension. I know that's something completely foreign to the States and Canada but that's how it is.

Most of the amateurs competing for Russia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and so on and so forth have no incentive in turning into pros. Like 20 years I remember winning the gold at the Worlds Russians would get a million dollars.

I am from Bulgaria and the bonus given for a world championship was 250 000, apartment, car and so on and so forth.

In Cuba most fighters receive around $400 monthly which is a lot of money in Cuba considering that the average salary is $20 per month.

That's pretty much how it works.

[HI-TECH Boxing]

What do you feel is an ideal age or # of fights to have before turning pro?

I think its a case by case thing myself. Plus your own options to make money are in play. Like I've never understood the go to college angle for talented basketball players. With the money involved today if you are the best HS player & you can get a $10M/yr NBA deal or w/e why would you wanna go play a year for free (or a education)? Its 2015, you can go to a bunch of schools online with that $10M/yr while you play & you're whole life is secure if you play your cards right. No boxers have as cherry a situation as that, but if you are a 18-22yr old top amateur & its 1-3yrs to the Olympics (which you may or may not qualify for with the maze guys gotta go thru these day & you may or may not win if you do qualify for) & you can get a $150k signing bonus + $2k/mo deal thats a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush situation imo.

I'm not saying they should turn pro in their mid to late 20's either. I actually don't like that. I think at the latest fighters should turn pro in their mid-20s. I thought Lomachenko should have turned pro right after the 2012 Olympics, but for some reason decided to wait another year.
Having the mindset that it's too late to turn pro at age 21 is wrong too though. If a fighter doesn't make the Olympics in his teenage years (17-19 years old) why does it hurt to wait another four years? Well as long as a dream was to make it to the Olympics. If you had no intentions of making the Olympics then go to professional. So I do agree that's it's case by case.

I do agree with your assessment here.
I don't want to hear people complain when more of the top amateurs start turning pro at even younger age and start dominating the professional game as well. They are already looking pretty good if you ask me.
Remember pro boxing is new to them, imagine when they get the hold of professional boxing as well.

Personally I feel guys in many of the countries you bring up should be turning pro sooner. You correctly mention (to the best of my knowledge) that they don't have as many avenues to turn pro, but I'd suggest thats just a thing that needs to be realized & corrected either by smart people with $ or the fighters themselves.

I mean ffs as a 25yr old you should be trying to make some attempt at making a life for yourself not hitting people in the head for free or $5k/per win if you are good enough to get in the WSB.

Well there is a reason why they don't go pro sooner. Some just basically do amateur boxing as a hobby, a passion, but have other jobs.
Their government also pay them a good salary to represent their respective countries. It's basically a job to them and they get paid way more than 5k.

The biggest and final reason is that they don't have a choice. There are no opportunities for fighters from Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Cuba, Ukraine, Russia, etc.
Opportunities are finally opening up. Why? because for one there are finally promoters in countries like Ukraine and Russia. K2 promotions and guys like Ryabinsky are finally giving some fighters a shot. Hopefully soon we have more promoters in all of Europe and in Central Asia (or Asia as a whole) that start opening doors for even more fighters.

These are the reasons why I don't like when people basically say that European and Asian fighters are put in a pedestal just because their complexion. It's idiotic. These guys have to sacrifice way more than other fighters.

I'm happy fighters like Klitschko, GGG, Kovalev and Lomachenko are opening the doors for more (Eastern) European and (Central) Asian fighters. I don't see why people have a problem with these guys being good.
Isn't it interesting that we are seeing more different types of styles?

Another thing that people seem to forget is that professional boxing is new to that part of the World. Fighters from Countries from the Ex-Soviet Union weren't allowed to go pro pre-90s. I'm pretty confident they were probably hesitant to be the first ones to go pro when they were allowed. Especially when they have no backing especially back then. Now that Klitschko, Golovkin, Kovalev and Lomachenko are having success, I'm sure that mindset has changed.

Egis Klimas is already signing a lot of talent from several countries.
After the 2016 Olympics I hope to see several Olympian and Olympic Medalist make the jump as well.