Redefined Greatest Heavyweight Ever List

[soul_survivor]

Agreed. i've watched a few of Charles fights, he was a master as you put it. He was just so smooth and relaxed, I've never seen someone so calm inside the ring.

This^^^^ Charles should be higher, only reason any the others beat him is size.

yep, Charles was slick for sure, he always looked so relaxed but I can't have him higher in a heavyweight list...although he'd be higher than some of those guys overall for his overall career.

Sonny Liston is very overrated, who did he ever beat besides Floyd Patterson?

He's just 2-2 in world title fights, and was stopped in those two losses.

he almost cleared out the entirety of the hw division in the pre-Ali post-Marciano era.

Gene Tunney doesn't belong on any Heavyweight list imo, the man had 4 or 5 fights there, to put him over any career Heavyweight who has a few decent wins is ridiculous. His Heavyweight resume begins and ends with 2 wins over an old Jack Dempsey, phenomenal Light Heavyweight no doubt but he's no Heavyweight.

There are tapes available of Tunney, watch him fight, the man was smart and could deal with almost any style. He beat the most feared heavyweight pre-Liston. That is enough.

Evander Holyfield ahead of Lennox Lewis and Larry Holmes is beyond dumb.

who has a better resume? who has the best big win? who had a more attractive style? who came up against the odds more? Plain and simple, Holy fought in a better era and beat the most feared puncher of his era with ease, managed to beat one of the most talented big men of his era too and only truly lost to another top level fighter when he came up against Lewis as he was already badly faded. I'm counting the Bowe losses but there's no shame in that.

Good list overall, no one will ever agree on the exact position of fighters but i'm particularly interested to see your write ups for Foreman and Holyfield being higher than Louis and Holmes.

Yeah, I'll try and have them up at some point. Been a bit busy, already taken months to make this list lol.

The cliff notes, I think Holy fought the better opposition and if I was looking at it H2H, I can see Holy giving Louis hell, with Louis' robotic mannerisms and straight, almost obvious punches. Holy wasn't as text book but he was quicker in his prime and could hurt guys bad.

[M Bison]

who has a better resume? who has the best big win? who had a more attractive style? who came up against the odds more? Plain and simple, Holy fought in a better era and beat the most feared puncher of his era with ease, managed to beat one of the most talented big men of his era too and only truly lost to another top level fighter when he came up against Lewis as he was already badly faded. I'm counting the Bowe losses but there's no shame in that.

Doesn't match up with your critique of Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali being ATG rated higher, Larry fought from the mid 70s I believe all the way up til the late 90s when he eventually retired.
His prime probably being in at mid 70s until mid 80s

He beat a lot of those fighters which are rated extremely highly by the nostalgia fans who are from the 70s and 80s era aren't those the same years that Frazier and Ali were in isn't that the era people rate highly?
Frazier also held a fairly fantastic form through his late 30s probably the first of the old bunch to do that even though he did get swatted out by Tyson.

Lets say on paper I think Larry Holmes has one of the most impressive resumes there is in boxing but there is a big misconception of what era is this and that...

Joe said it himself -
"You've got a better time now, men are faster, smarter and a little bit more slicker"

I think Marvis Frazier learnt that in the hardest manner as well, If he started in the same era as his dad or before it he'd have likely achieved a lot more than he did than 18 something fights then retiring in his late 20s.

[soul_survivor]

Doesn't match up with your critique of Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali being ATG rated higher, Larry fought from the mid 70s I believe all the way up til the late 90s when he eventually retired.
His prime probably being in at mid 70s until mid 80s

He beat a lot of those fighters which are rated extremely highly by the nostalgia fans who are from the 70s and 80s era aren't those the same years that Frazier and Ali were in isn't that the era people rate highly?
Frazier also held a fairly fantastic form through his late 30s probably the first of the old bunch to do that even though he did get swatted out by Tyson.

Lets say on paper I think Larry Holmes has one of the most impressive resumes there is in boxing but there is a big misconception of what era is this and that...

Joe said it himself -
"You've got a better time now, men are faster, smarter and a little bit more slicker"

I think Marvis Frazier learnt that in the hardest manner as well, If he started in the same era as his dad or before it he'd have likely achieved a lot more than he did than 18 something fights then retiring in his late 20s.

Larry Holmes was nowhere near his prime in the mid-70s, he was a glorified sparring partner on the edge of the heavyweight scene. By 1977 he was still only fighting guys like Horace Robinson (5-2) and Fred Houpe who had only 13 fights and had lost his previous bout. Holmes' claim to fame was that he was Ali's prized sparring partner but in the greater scheme of things, Holmes was not relevant as a boxer at any point in the mid 70s.

Your second point is that Holmes "beat a lot of the guys from the nostalgia era" or some crap along those lines. Holmes beat Shavers and Norton, probably the only two guys from the golden age that he actually fought and beat, Shavers was past his best and Norton was all but out of the game, both gave Holmes tough fights but it's at this stage, when the WBC title was vacated (Ali was still recognised as THE MAN following his rematch win over Spinks), that Holmes was starting to become relevant. Now, don't even try and hold up that Ali win.

Now I think I remember you as the guy who said Joe was only a step above his son so....let's just end this year. No one on this forum will take you seriously after this.

[NChristo]

There are tapes available of Tunney, watch him fight, the man was smart and could deal with almost any style. He beat the most feared heavyweight pre-Liston. That is enough.

I've seen enough of Tunney to know he was a brilliant fighter but no, it really isn't enough at all to rank him among the great Heavies, Buster Douglas beat the most feared Heavyweight Post Liston does that make him an ATG Heavyweight ?, 5 fights at Heavyweight even if 2 of them were too an old Jack Dempsey (1 of which is questionable, the rematch isn't known as the Battle of The Long Count for nothing) just isn't good enough.

[M Bison]

Larry Holmes was nowhere near his prime in the mid-70s, he was a glorified sparring partner on the edge of the heavyweight scene. By 1977 he was still only fighting guys like Horace Robinson (5-2) and Fred Houpe who had only 13 fights and had lost his previous bout. Holmes' claim to fame was that he was Ali's prized sparring partner but in the greater scheme of things, Holmes was not relevant as a boxer at any point in the mid 70s.

Your second point is that Holmes "beat a lot of the guys from the nostalgia era" or some crap along those lines. Holmes beat Shavers and Norton, probably the only two guys from the golden age that he actually fought and beat, Shavers was past his best and Norton was all but out of the game, both gave Holmes tough fights but it's at this stage, when the WBC title was vacated (Ali was still recognised as THE MAN following his rematch win over Spinks), that Holmes was starting to become relevant. Now, don't even try and hold up that Ali win.

Now I think I remember you as the guy who said Joe was only a step above his son so....let's just end this year. No one on this forum will take you seriously after this.

so apparently Ken Norton and Shavers were out of there prime

Give Larry Holmes credit where its due at 38 years of age he wasn't finished and he legitimately beat the guys Ali robbed.

Its hard to take you rating eras when you can look back at such guys like Jimmy Young who clearly beat Ali and George Foreman...
Have we ever seen Wladimir or Vitali soundly outboxed?

Let me guess... dat de better era doe hahahahahaha

[Daddy T]

Some of you may remember me posting a similar list some 12 months ago. Since then I've been looking into the divisions' history once more, watching quite literally hundreds of fights and reading thousands of articles and opinions by ex-fighters, journalists and "experts". This is without a doubt my most in depth list ever. So, here are my top 20 greatest heavyweights ever, write ups for each guy will follow so you know why I chose these guys and why they are placed in this particular order.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. George Foreman
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Larry Holmes
5. Joe Louis
6. Joe Frazier
7. Lennox Lewis
8. Mike Tyson
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Sonny Liston
11. Wladimir Klitschko
12. Ezzard Charles
13. Gene Tunney
14. Jack Dempsey
15. Vitali Klitschko
16. Jack Johnson
17. Michael Spinks
18. Jersey Joe Walcot
19. Riddick Bowe
20. Chris Byrd

I know this will attract a lot of hate from the fanboys but let me complete my write ups on each guy and post them over the course of the coming weeks before you fully judge.

Alright, let it begin.

2. George Foreman
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Larry Holmes

these three all above Joe Louis? I stopped reading

[LacedUp]

Accepts Joe Louis at number 5 when he has had a weaker era than Wladimir Klitschko...
Yet Wladimir is 11th

Let the man have his opinion. Post yours and take it from there.

[Build That Wall]

Some of you may remember me posting a similar list some 12 months ago. Since then I've been looking into the divisions' history once more, watching quite literally hundreds of fights and reading thousands of articles and opinions by ex-fighters, journalists and "experts". This is without a doubt my most in depth list ever. So, here are my top 20 greatest heavyweights ever, write ups for each guy will follow so you know why I chose these guys and why they are placed in this particular order.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. George Foreman
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Larry Holmes
5. Joe Louis
6. Joe Frazier
7. Lennox Lewis
8. Mike Tyson
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Sonny Liston
11. Wladimir Klitschko
12. Ezzard Charles
13. Gene Tunney
14. Jack Dempsey
15. Vitali Klitschko
16. Jack Johnson
17. Michael Spinks
18. Jersey Joe Walcot
19. Riddick Bowe
20. Chris Byrd

I know this will attract a lot of hate from the fanboys but let me complete my write ups on each guy and post them over the course of the coming weeks before you fully judge.

Alright, let it begin.

Riddick Bowe was better than Evander Holyfield.

[LacedUp]

Here's a go at my list.

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Foreman
4. Holmes
5. Frazier
6. Johnson
7. Holyfield
8. Lewis
9. Dempsey
10. W. Klitschko
11. Tyson
12. Marciano
13. H. Wills
14. J.J Walcott
15. E. Charles
16. V. Klitschko
17. Langford
18. Bowe
19. James J Jeffries
20. Patterson? Burns? Sullivan?

[LacedUp]

Riddick Bowe was better than Evander Holyfield.

But not greater.