For those of you who put think Marciano is overrated

[hhascup]

Yeah but larry holmes is 6'3 and around 235, Tyson is 220. Not to mention that both of them were way too skilled and big in thier primes, you can't blame hagler for having a smart manager. Could he have fought at 168, yes. However that division was brand new back then and didnt have money making fights. Hgaler made money by fighting hearns, duran and the top contenders during his era. He might have moved up if that ***** ray leonard would have given him a re-match.

He could of fought some Light Heavyweights, the way Greb and Walker did. They still weighed the same.

[The Surgeon]

Props to Greb and Walker for havin the balls to fight the big guys! But i dont think that sum one should feel obligated to leave there natural weight division coz history dictates it and espesially not to climb the pound for pound ratings, peeps read way to much into the p4p ****! Do any of u guys no where i could see sum footage of Walker? He sounds like a bad ass

[hhascup]

Props to Greb and Walker for havin the balls to fight the big guys! But i dont think that sum one should feel obligated to leave there natural weight division coz history dictates it and espesially not to climb the pound for pound ratings, peeps read way to much into the p4p ****! Do any of u guys no where i could see sum footage of Walker? He sounds like a bad ass

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3CxjJIOqnVI

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iLLQiZODFTU

I met Walker several times as he use to come to some of the boxing meetings in New Jersey in the late 1970's and early 1980's. I talked to him many times as well but he was a little out of it, if you know what I mean. Freddie Red Cochrane was the same way, and I also met and talked to him many times as well.

[The Surgeon]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3CxjJIOqnVI

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iLLQiZODFTU

I met Walker several times as he use to come to some of the boxing meetings in New Jersey in the late 1970's and early 1980's. I talked to him many times as well but he was a little out of it, if you know what I mean. Freddie Red Cochrane was the same way, and I also met and talked to him many times as well.

Thanx for the link bud. The little guy keeps cumin huh! No shame inlosing to those two even if ur a heavyweight! Mad courage! Think i mite try and order sum of his fights, he looks the value for money type! Now ur just rubbin it in Hhascup lol! cheers again

[Kid Achilles]

I don't care Haglers reasoning for not fighting light heavyweights and heavyweights, the point is he didn't while Greb, Walker, Langford, etc. DID and on a somewhat regular basis.

The point is Greb proved he was good enough to beat decent heavyweights and great light heavyweights like Tunney, Loughran, Tommy Gibbons, and Rosenbloom. Whether or not you think Hagler could beat the best light heavyweights of his era is a moot point. He never proved it, unlike Greb.

[hhascup]

Thanx for the link bud. The little guy keeps cumin huh! No shame inlosing to those two even if ur a heavyweight! Mad courage! Think i mite try and order sum of his fights, he looks the value for money type! Now ur just rubbin it in Hhascup lol! cheers again

No, I just have met so many of the Greats in all sports. I was the MC and Historian for the Italian American Sports Hall of Fame for several years and I had to entertain people like, Joe DiMaggio, Bruno Sammartino, Vinny Testaverde, Mark Bavaro, Lou Duva, Tommy Lasorda, Bruce Smith, Lawrence Taylor, Phil Simms, Tommy John and Tony La Russa, among others.

I can tell you stories about them that would shock you.

I also introduced all these guys plus, Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Patterson, Holmes, Hopkins, Frazier, Moorer, Mickey Walker, Griffith, Joey Archer, Jake LaMotta, Hamsho, Czyz, Wepner, Graziano, Vito Antuofermo, Pernell Whitaker, Buddy McGirt, Kid Galivan, Tony DeMarco, Johnny Saxton, my good friend, Tippy Larkin, Carlos Ortiz, Ike Williams, Boom Boom Mancini, both Spinks brothers, both Klitschko brothers, McCline, Ruiz, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Jose Torres, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad and Earnie Shavers. I will stop their, BUT there is a lot more.

Come to think about it, I am pretty lucky to know and talk to all of the above.

[hhascup]

I don't care Haglers reasoning for not fighting light heavyweights and heavyweights, the point is he didn't while Greb, Walker, Langford, etc. DID and on a somewhat regular basis.

The point is Greb proved he was good enough to beat decent heavyweights and great light heavyweights like Tunney, Loughran, Tommy Gibbons, and Rosenbloom. Whether or not you think Hagler could beat the best light heavyweights of his era is a moot point. He never proved it, unlike Greb.

I agree 100%

[Kid Achilles]

It's ridiculous on this forum how people pretty much blatantly admit that the newer guys did not fight as often against good opposition as the older greats, and then try let it slide by saying it's okay as that's just how it's done. If a newer fighter, let's say Mayweather, does not prove himself to be at least the equal of a Greb, Leonard (Ray or Benny), Duran, etc., how can you consider him superior? Why give a fighter a free pass to greatness just because of the fact that in his era he didn't have to fight so often against the best guys to make money? I say if he didn't fight as often against quality opposition he just plain did not prove himself to be as good as someone who did.

If a contemporary fighter wants to be perceived as being as good as Greb, he'd better be fighting the best, frequently, and winning too. He'd better have a good 100 or so fights with dozens of quality names over champions and top contenders. Otherwise he did not prove himself to be as good as the fighter who did these things. Period.

"Guys just don't fight as often" is not a valid excuse. If you want to be acknowledged as being as a good as a certai great, you have to live up to the standards he set, not the standards of your era.

[The Surgeon]

No, I just have met so many of the Greats in all sports. I was the MC and Historian for the Italian American Sports Hall of Fame for several years and I had to entertain people like, Joe DiMaggio, Bruno Sammartino, Vinny Testaverde, Mark Bavaro, Lou Duva, Tommy Lasorda, Bruce Smith, Lawrence Taylor, Phil Simms, Tommy John and Tony La Russa, among others.

I can tell you stories about them that would shock you.

I also introduced all these guys plus, Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Patterson, Holmes, Hopkins, Frazier, Moorer, Mickey Walker, Griffith, Joey Archer, Jake LaMotta, Hamsho, Czyz, Wepner, Graziano, Vito Antuofermo, Pernell Whitaker, Buddy McGirt, Kid Galivan, Tony DeMarco, Johnny Saxton, my good friend, Tippy Larkin, Carlos Ortiz, Ike Williams, Boom Boom Mancini, both Spinks brothers, both Klitschko brothers, McCline, Ruiz, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Jose Torres, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad and Earnie Shavers. I will stop their, BUT there is a lot more.

Come to think about it, I am pretty lucky to know and talk to all of the above.

Damn right ur lucky! Lets hear sum stories then man ......

[hhascup]

Damn right ur lucky! Lets hear sum stories then man ......

Well back when DiMaggio came and we had to pay him I believe, $5,000, plus hotel, Limo service, etc. I was asked by Lasorda and Duva to ask DiMaggio if he would give out a "Joe DiMaggio" Trophy, to the best Italian American High School baseball player in the State of New Jersey. So I did, and he said, That will be another $1,000. I said, I think you misunderstood me Joe, he said, No I heard what you said and if you want me to do that, it will cost you another $1,000. I went to Duva and Lasorda and told them what DiMaggio had to say and they weren't very happy. They then went over to him themselves. I know he did it But either Tommy or Lou would tell me if they had to pay him.

Vinny Testaverde just won the Heisman Trophy and we honored him. He wanted 10 FREE tickets to the affair, so we gave them to him, plus Limo and Hotel. A couple of days before the affair, he called me and wanted another 10 Free tickets, plus Limo amd hotel. I told him that he had the wrong number and I told him to call Lou.