Wlad vs the greats

[New England]

I'm not calling klitschko a bum

far from it, the guy has had a hell of a career and deserves to be in the hall of fame compared to the work of his peers in his era



but i am saying that ali would make him look like a bum
he'd make him look like some tall jacked guy that came in off the street
he'd be two, three steps ahead of wladimir all night long, both literally and figuratively

[StarshipTrooper]

Not in the second fight he didn't.

You better rewatch that fight, this time without drooling over Chuvalo's whiteness. And remember, you can't give Chuvalo rounds for "effective whiteness" or "ring whitemanship".

Poet

[Vadrigar.]

I don't understand this reasoning. Maybe Ali wasn't as past it there as later, but still he got demolished.

WTH are you talking about? He was clearly past it against shavers, everything he had in 71' eroded away expect an iron jaw.

It was only his what, third fight after coming back?

Yeah, and? There's no way shavers is taking the amount of punches Ali landed on Frazier, who was a moving target for pretty much the whole fight. Shavers fought out off an ear muff type defence and a washed up Ali managed to penetrate his guard, freezing him in the last round.

I'd say Shavers had even better chance to stop him.

Not with those slow overhand rights, which Ali would see and counter.

[Vadrigar.]

You better rewatch that fight, this time without drooling over Chuvalo's whiteness. And remember, you can't give Chuvalo round for "effective whiteness" of "ring whitemanship".

Poet

that made me chuckle.

[Miburo]

I'd like to see Wlad versus a young Foreman.

[JAB5239]

I don't understand this reasoning. Maybe Ali wasn't as past it there as later, but still he got demolished. It was only his what, third fight after coming back? I'd say Shavers had even better chance to stop him.

He lost unanimously. Demolished is a huge overstement.

Shavers never would have survived THAT Ali. He just didn't have the stamina and Ali was so much faster then, than he was after the Frazier and Foreman fight.

[JAB5239]

You better rewatch that fight, this time without drooling over Chuvalo's whiteness. And remember, you can't give Chuvalo rounds for "effective whiteness" of "ring whitemanship".

Poet

Ok, enough with the ball busting! That is funny though!!

[BigStereotype]

I'd like to see Wlad versus a young Foreman.

What did Wlad ever do to you?

[JAB5239]

What did Wlad ever do to you?

Lmao!!

[hebi]

Look no one is saying Ali wont be bothered by power. Yes he will. Everyone is bothered by power. I also agree with you , when you say that Wlad is a better puncher. Sure he is . But Ali had decent power, not exceptional but he could hurt you. But Wlad gets the edge agreed.

Speed? I am sorry I see Ali being much faster than Wlad. He was quick, very quick. I have never seen Wlad fight with a heavy even approaching the speed of Ali. And he struggled to catch Haye. I sincerely think Ali has a better defensive jab and coupled with his foot speed it will be difficult for Wlad to catch him consistently enough to outpoint him. Wlad isnt a great body puncher either. Punches to the body sap your energy, but i never saw him hitting to the body with much consistency anyway.

Ali has the intangibles and speed if I may so. Wlad has the punching power. Ali faced a variety of heavys all with different strengths and beat them all. Wlad hasn't proved himself like that(no fault of his, he is the best of the current crop).

In a fight between the two I see Wlad doing well , but ultimately getting outpointed easily especially in the late rounds and Ali winning a easy unanimous decision.

P.s :- I am sorry if I have barged into your conversation with Poet, I hope you dont mind.

An intelligent, well thought out reply to my post.. how dare you, sir.

Are you referring to Ali before the forced lay off? Obviously he was a good deal quicker and more mobile back then(although timing and skill can always accommodate speed). I tend to imagine post layoff Ali, because that is where he really did most of his work.

As for Wlad's failure to properly catch Haye, I chock that up to Haye fighting scared more than an issue of speed. Look at the fight between Pac/Mosley. Pacquaio is one of the most accurate, dangerous offensive fighters of all time, but Mosley(and Clottey for that matter) made him look bad by refusing to fight. It would be incorrect to sum it up as though they gave Pac problems, same case for Wlad/Haye. It takes two to fight.

Ali did fight a wide range of good fighters. How many did he fight who were taller, longer reach, and a good jab of their own? I really don't think Ali ever fought anyone comparable to Wlad. Maybe Foreman would be the most relevant(albeit with tremendously different styles). Most of the guys Ali fought were either smaller than him(he was a big heavyweight in his day) or they were lumbering oafs with nowhere near the talent of Wlad(not criticizing Ali's unparalleled competition, but pointing out the important size differential). I feel Ali's style(hands down, reflex based, relying on jabbing, movement, and utilizing distance) is used most effectively against an opponent who is shorter. I see it as a style that would be difficult to utilize against a man significantly larger, with accurate punching and good timing.

Foreman, perhaps the largest and most athletic opponent of Ali's career, himself was not so much outboxed as outfoxed, collapsing from lack of stamina. I would like to say the much sharper combination puncher in Wlad would not punch himself out with wild swings, but the bizarre first fight with Brewster makes that a hard claim as dubious as it was.

I have a hard time picking against Ali given Wlad's lack of intangibles and his poor losses, however I strongly disagree that Ali gets an easy decision. I could see him wearing Wlad down and stopping him late, or winning a very difficult decision at best.