Rankings tourny - top 64: Heavyeight

[JAB5239]

Hahahaha. Still as biased as ever huh Jabbie. You don't even try to hide it anymore/. It was ok untill you kept letting Louis bumbeater winning. Holmes and Ali would box circles around him and KO him. It would be a terrible styles mismatch.

Sorry but I'll favor Eddie Futch's opinion over yours any day. You simply cant understand boxing strategy because you have never fought. Your opinion has an agenda and is "armchair" best.

1. While Ali is the fastest heavyweight ever, Louis was nearly as fast with his hands. Ali’s many tactical mistakes would leave him open to one of Louis lightning-like strikes. His foot-speed and jab would be negated by Louis properly placed right parrying hand. Louis would render ineffective Ali’s primary weapon, his left jab, and drive him to the ropes vis-a-vis Ken Norton.

2. Ali was a master of strategy against slow handed bruisers like Liston, Terrell, Foreman, and Shavers. He had more trouble with men with hand speed who could punch with him like Doug Jones, Norton, and Jimmy Young. Louis was superior in hand speed to any of these men. With the previously outlined strategy, which Blackburn and Joe would be sure to implement, Louis would not be at a strategic disadvantage against Ali.

3. Ali had a great chin, but he was not a diety. Nat Fleischer rated Joe Louis as the greatest finisher in ring history. Consider that Joe Frazier had Ali in serious trouble and he did not have Louis speed of delivery, combination punching ability, nor was he as deadly a finisher. Had it been Joe Louis he would have kayoed Ali in the first Frazier first fight, and also in the third. Liston, Foreman and Shavers were big punchers but slow of hand, and could not carry on a sustained assault for 15 rounds. Louis definitely would not tire and he was a more explosive and sharper puncher in the mold of a young Mike Tyson. Louis had real shock value in his punches. Ali’s chin would have its greatest test not against Frazier or Foreman but against Joe Louis.

4. Ali was never beaten until a 3-year lay-off, but it was still close to his physical prime he was less than 2 months removed from his 29th birthday. Some would say he lost to Doug Jones, and he was nearly kayoed by Cooper so his unbeaten streak is not without tarnish. In comparing Ali when he retired at age 36 after beating Spinks his record was 56-3 with 37 kayos. Louis when he retired as champion at age 35 was 60-1 with 51 kayos. Louis also lost four of his best years due to WW2 just as Ali lost 3 ½ years in his forced exile. Overall Ali faced the better competition, but Max Schmeling (a first rate counter-puncher), Max Baer (one of the hardest hitters in division history), Arturo Godoy (never knocked off his feet in his first 70 pro fights), and Jersey Joe Walcott (one of the slickest boxer-punchers of all time) are better than anyone that Ali faced during his prime years, with the exception of Sonny Liston. Both Ali and Louis were dominant champions.

Ali had a slight edge in size over Joe. Ali was 6’3” 212 pounds in his prime, and had an 80-inch reach. Louis was 6’1 ½”, and about 207, his best weight in his rematches against Buddy Baer and Abe Simon. Louis had a 76” reach. Louis height and reach is about the same as Evander Holyfield. Frazier was 205 in the first Ali-Frazier fight, so any physical advantage is void. Joe Louis had the hand speed, the jab, the power, the stamina, the ring smarts and the style to defeat Muhammad Ali. Joe Louis is the one man who would knock Muhammad Ali out!

[Slimey Limey]

Eddie Futch is as leading an expert as has ever been on Ali. I'll take the word of a man who actually devised strategies that beat Ali with much lesser fighters than Joe Louis over the half assed opinion of someone who has never fought before and goes to extreme lengths to discredit Louis every chance she gets.

Its amusing how you like to focus on one fighters shortcomings while ignoring those of the fighters he has been matched with. Very telling.



Nope, not flawless nor invincible, but still the greatest heavyweight ever in MY opinion.

ONE of MANY leading experts on Ali. You act as if only a handful of people could give their opinions on this matchup, and you know most would choose Ali, both legacy wise and in a head to head matchup.

And you're still using the child ish "you never fought before!!" lad? You don't know me and frankly this shows you're still grasping at straws here. Have you fought before Jabbie? Not that it matters or I give a ****e.

And you find that amusing and telling? What's amusing is you're ignoring these points.
Ali and Holmes were 2 of the slickest boxers ever. Louis had a lot of trouble with slick boxers(Walcott, Conn, Schmeling and so on). They had great movement, something the slow plodding Louis lacked. They had longer accurate jabs, which Louis had trouble with. They had 2 of the fastest counter right hands ever, which would have found home considering Louis' lazy arse low left hand.

etc.

Ah, and now you DO admit you believe Louis is the greatest HW ever(PUKE) which you denied before. Now is the next step. Admit your bias, so we can all move on without taking you seriously anymore.

[winky44]

ONE of MANY leading experts on Ali. You act as if only a handful of people could give their opinions on this matchup, and you know most would choose Ali, both legacy wise and in a head to head matchup.

And you're still using the child ish "you never fought before!!" lad? You don't know me and frankly this shows you're still grasping at straws here. Have you fought before Jabbie? Not that it matters or I give a ****e.

And you find that amusing and telling? What's amusing is you're ignoring these points.
Ali and Holmes were 2 of the slickest boxers ever. Louis had a lot of trouble with slick boxers(Walcott, Conn, Schmeling and so on). They had great movement, something the slow plodding Louis lacked. They had longer accurate jabs, which Louis had trouble with. They had 2 of the fastest counter right hands ever, which would have found home considering Louis' lazy arse low left hand.

etc.

Ah, and now you DO admit you believe Louis is the greatest HW ever(PUKE) which you denied before. Now is the next step. Admit your bias, so we can all move on without taking you seriously anymore.

Yo Slimey Limey have you ever laced on the gloves and ever boxed? Out of interest???

[Jim Jeffries]

ONE of MANY leading experts on Ali. You act as if only a handful of people could give their opinions on this matchup, and you know most would choose Ali, both legacy wise and in a head to head matchup.

And you're still using the child ish "you never fought before!!" lad? You don't know me and frankly this shows you're still grasping at straws here. Have you fought before Jabbie? Not that it matters or I give a ****e.

And you find that amusing and telling? What's amusing is you're ignoring these points.
Ali and Holmes were 2 of the slickest boxers ever. Louis had a lot of trouble with slick boxers(Walcott, Conn, Schmeling and so on). They had great movement, something the slow plodding Louis lacked. They had longer accurate jabs, which Louis had trouble with. They had 2 of the fastest counter right hands ever, which would have found home considering Louis' lazy arse low left hand.

etc.

Ah, and now you DO admit you believe Louis is the greatest HW ever(PUKE) which you denied before. Now is the next step. Admit your bias, so we can all move on without taking you seriously anymore.

Most knowledgeable boxing historians have Joe Louis in their top two ATG HW list. Having him at #1 is not a huge stretch.

[JAB5239]

ONE of MANY leading experts on Ali. You act as if only a handful of people could give their opinions on this matchup, and you know most would choose Ali, both legacy wise and in a head to head matchup.

Yup. And how many of those experts were in the opposing corner and devised strategies that BEAT Ali? Beat Ali with lesser fighters than Joe Louis.

And you're still using the child ish "you never fought before!!" lad? You don't know me and frankly this shows you're still grasping at straws here. Have you fought before Jabbie? Not that it matters or I give a ****e.

Obviously you do give a **** or you wouldn't even have responded. A 5 year old could tell you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about....thats how I know you've never fought. Thats how I know you're an idiot. And the overwhelming majority on these boards will agree with me. Gee, I wonder why?

And you find that amusing and telling? What's amusing is you're ignoring these points.
Ali and Holmes were 2 of the slickest boxers ever. Louis had a lot of trouble with slick boxers(Walcott, Conn, Schmeling and so on). They had great movement, something the slow plodding Louis lacked. They had longer accurate jabs, which Louis had trouble with. They had 2 of the fastest counter right hands ever, which would have found home considering Louis' lazy arse low left hand.

And Ali had trouble with the likes of Doug Jones and Henry Cooper. He was a sucker for the left hook. Every scenario you can think of that has Ali winning, I can think of one that has him losing.

Ah, and now you DO admit you believe Louis is the greatest HW ever(PUKE) which you denied before. Now is the next step. Admit your bias, so we can all move on without taking you seriously anymore.

I've always said I believe Louis was the best heavy ever. Any idiot can find my list or numerous posts on the subject. Obviously you're a couple of notches below "idiot". Tsk, tsk.

[#1Assassin]

Yo Slimey Limey have you ever laced on the gloves and ever boxed? Out of interest???

yeah man have u boxed? and with boxed i mean competed. just out of curiosity. the guy is right btw, there are some things in boxing u dont fully understand until u step in the ring yourself.

[Slimey Limey]

Yup. And how many of those experts were in the opposing corner and devised strategies that BEAT Ali? Beat Ali with lesser fighters than Joe Louis.

Did he train LOUIS in the opposing corner and devised strategies for LOUIS to BEAT Ali? What you're saying means nothing. He's just one of many to overestimate the lad so you do not have any argument here.

Obviously you do give a **** or you wouldn't even have responded. A 5 year old could tell you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about....thats how I know you've never fought. Thats how I know you're an idiot. And the overwhelming majority on these boards will agree with me. Gee, I wonder why?

I was being sarcastic, but now you made me curious since you're running your mouth about how much you are a fighter and how much you've fought. For you info I have fought not that it's any of your business nor do I care if you believe so I'm not gonna try to prove anything to ya. So since you are doing exactly that, why don't you prove to everyone that you are a real fighter who fought many times, since you act as if your arguments hold any more ground with those child ish claims?

Since you can't last in a debate you have to resort to stuff like this. Pathetic.

And Ali had trouble with the likes of Doug Jones and Henry Cooper. He was a sucker for the left hook. Every scenario you can think of that has Ali winning, I can think of one that has him losing.

Doug Jones and Cooper hahaha. So that's how low you have to sink? A young inexperienced Ali who still beat those men.

You do not have any SANE scenario that has Ali losing to bumbeater. You'll only bring silly examples like the one above.

I've always said I believe Louis was the best heavy ever. Any idiot can find my list or numerous posts on the subject. Obviously you're a couple of notches below "idiot". Tsk, tsk.

Cute. I believe you were questioning yourself in a thread about ATG top 10's or Pound for pound fighters. Can't remember exactly, but I do know that after I exposed your Louis bias you gave up on it and went what the hell.

[StarshipTrooper]

Remember this?

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=195982

It's the same guy. A certified troll.

Ah yes! Good old Rafael Benitez who claimed he was a boxing trainer and then later JulioCesa(r)Chavez. What a hypocrite seein as how under Rafael Benitez he was squawking about what a worthles bum-beater Marciano was:

Marciano was overrated. If he fought Liston isntead of being a chicken he would have bean beaten to a pulp. He struggled against slow old men like Walcott and a washed up Charles. I reckon most top heavies from each era would have wiped the floor with him. Do u really think he could stand in there with Big Klitchko, Lewis, Holyfied or even Samuel Peter?LOL. Way too easy to hit. He was lucky that Italians loved boxing at the time, it was number one in sports and he had no competition.

Only idiots who have no fight dvd's (i have 1000+ 500vhs) and haven't seen much would rate 'the rock'. The best of his era were old men, and even then he was getting outboxed by the painfully slow Jersey Joe Walcott (equivalent to a journeyman like glen johnson)just by looking at footage one can see he wouldn't stand a chance aginst a Prime Roy Jones, the old Hopkins or even our Clinton Woods! Never mind any genuine heavyweight. He didn't lose coz he didn't fight anybody. Look at all the best, they lost coz they fought the best. He knew he had to retire early or get ko'd by the up and coming fighters! Smart guy but still rubbish.

I've seen every major boxing match that took place in the past 100 years and every Marciano title fight. Walcott was an old slow man and even then he had to hit the man when he was down because he was being outboxed. Marciano is overrated because he was the white hope in a segragated America where they believed they were evolutionarily superior. Marciano never beat anybody decent in their prime and was lucky he was in a dead era. The truth is he was overrated and would lose to many of todays light heavyweights including Calzaghe Hopkins and maybe even Tarver. People who know boxing know he is not a top ten heavyweight. Don't get upset, it is the truth.

LOL some Marciano advocates believe Joe Louis was not totally over the hill when Marciano fought him!!! He was pulled out of retirment and looked more washed up than the shores of Blackpool. Just because Rocky was crap and made a meal out of him and the other old men he fought doesn't mean they were not washed up. Also he did not fight everyone around at his time and retired early to avoid the likes of Sonny liston, Cleveland Williams etc. Even so, it may not be his fault but still exposed his weaknesses. He struggled with Walcott who was average, slow and ever so OLD. It took a dirty shot and there was never to be a rematch in segregated america that needed their hero so bad. He was so easy to hit it was a joke. Completely outboxed for many rouns. Marciano would lose to David Haye in about 2 rounds.

I think he is not even in the top 20 in the heavyweight division of all time. It pisses me off when people think he was in the top 5 or even the best! ROFL. Why does he always pop up on p4p lists? He was absolutely ****!

I see you did your hours long homework on me. That's sweet.

THIS is coming from the guy who has several TheGreatA accounts, several Manmachine accounts as well as other alts such as Southpaw16. And if you want to deny this, then how are they so similar like you? After all mate, you're just mad that there are more people that agree with me such as the lad you posted here behind his back.

Stick to the thunderdome with that crap.

This thread is to expose Louis' perversities.

If by that you mean you have around 5 alts, then yes you are right mate.

Maybe you should step up your stalking game, so that I won't notice it's your alt that's following me around every time. For Gods sake is it that hard not to talk like a robot?

Well well, doesn't that make him just look "special"? Can we say "busted"? Nice job GreatA!

Poet

[The Iron Man]

13. Tyson vs 20. McVey Tyson by tko

This is a fight i would love to see! Both very similar fighters in build and both were brilliant punchers! McVey is a one of my a fighter i am very interested in learning more about and if there are any biographies that someone could recommend it would be much appreciated.

[StarshipTrooper]

This is a fight i would love to see! Both very similar fighters in build and both were brilliant punchers! McVey is a one of my a fighter i am very interested in learning more about and if there are any biographies that someone could recommend it would be much appreciated.

And here you go!

Mike Tyson vs Sam McVey

Fight info: Yankee Stadium, New York, NY, United States, 2013-07-06, announcer is Michael Buffer, referee is Mills Lane, the bout will be scored by the three judges Silvestre Abainza (Philippines), Angel Tovar (Mexico) and David Harris (United States), ring card girl is Amy Longlegs, this is not a title bout, the bout is scheduled for 15 rounds, three KD rule is not in effect, save by the bell only in last round, referee or
doctor can stop the fight, mandatory 8 count is in effect, fight stopped due to an accidental head butt: Tech. Draw through 50%/Scorecard after 50%, game will check for injuries, game will adjust ratings for weight class, use judges bias is set to 'use bias rating', Scoring System is 10 Point Must.

In the red corner: Mike Tyson - Record: 0-0-0 - Career Stage: Prime -
Conditioning: Top Condition - Trainer: Kevin Rooney - Cut Man: Sam Gasher

In the blue corner: Sam McVey - Record: 0-0-0 - Career Stage: Prime -
Conditioning: Top Condition - Trainer: Eddie Inabagsky - Cut Man: Sam Gasher