Pacquiao is...........

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

Fair enough then, live in England atm so don't really know much of anything that going on with Football.

The NFL had a game in London I think 2 weeks ago. They are trying new markets. It might start picking up steam outside the US. Its a kick ass sport though.

[Khalid X]

Dominance is getting brought up and about how Leonard / Duran weren't as dominant as Pacquaio is, 1 thing wrong with that statement, Pacquaio isn't fighting the competition that they did.

Although I will add that Lightweight Duran was probably one of the most dominant I've seen.



Yep, Duran was damn 45 when he beat a peak Castro, Kobayashi's last fight was with Duran and he wasn't what he used to be but he still had a lot of fight left in him and was much more experienced.





Then why don't you post more in History, you said you was going too but made 1 thread and that was all.

Just Saying.

I'm looking at his other fights as well and how dominate Leonard and duran were against gusy not named Hearns Benitez etc. Those guys never dominated elite level opposition like Manny did.

Before you ask why I ommited Hearns and Benitez is because I feel that it's damn near impossible to dominate either of those guys at their natural weight class....so I don't hold it against Ray that he wasn't able to dominate them.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

I'm looking at his other fights as well and how dominate Leonard and duran were against gusy not named Hearns Benitez etc. Those guys never dominated elite level opposition like Manny did.

Before you ask why I ommited Hearns and Benitez is because I feel that it's damn near impossible to dominate either of those guys at their natural weight class....so I don't hold it against Ray that he wasn't able to dominate them.

Who are these World Class Elite Level guys that you feel Pac dominated?

I can only think of 1.

And thats Barerra.

[The Big Dunn]

Props to Roy for his win over Toney as that was an ATG performance. The thing is Roy looked great against subpar opposition while Manny looked great against world class elite level opposition. I mean lets keep it real and realize that Roy's opposition was extremely soft in the late 90's early 00's. When he finally faced a guy who was a legit threat....he got obliterated.

Roy is not even close to being better than Manny and this isn't me flaming or just saying **** to rile people up.


As far as the Leonard comment, I have Leonard rated higher than Pacquiao due to resume. I'm not denying or arguing that. I'm saying Leonard was never as dominate as Manny. Manny makes the **** look easy and this is against elite level fighters.

Thanks for clarifying. Here in lies the debate. manny's "elite" comp has been whom? JMM we agree. Cotto we agree. Hatton at 140 and ODH at 147 was that elite? I think its debateable. Clottey, no. Marg, no. Diaz no. Going back, he dominated barrera {elite we agree) but lost to morales when he was elite. No offense, but its hard to say morales was elite after the zahir raheem loss, Can we agree?

Even counting Hatton as "elite" that means Manny is 5-1-1 and hardly has made all those "look easy". Am I wrong about this?

[jrosales13]

Jrosales13 you are my man and a good poster but you are way off here. To your point about skill vs greatness, the same thing could be said about sweet pea, more skilled but not "greater". Yet you felt sweet pea was the greatest so I don't see how you can question me pointing out ricardo. But your point is fair.

No, you can't compare Whitaker to Lopez. Not only does Whitaker had the skill but also had the resume. Lopez had the skill but the resume was kinda lacking. So yes I think Whitaker was greater. He beat Ramirez and got robbed once, beat Azumah Nelson, and beat Julio Cesar Vazquez a good big strong fighter who had a win over Winky Wright and dropped Winky 5 times. And, Whitaker won damn near every round agaisnt him. Also hold wins against McGirt and Haugen. Has Finito or Pac fought anybody as good/great as JCC? NO!!!!!! and even though it was technically a draw anybody who saw that fight knows whats up.

Now, if Lopez would of moved up sooner and fought Chiquita Gonzalez, Carbajal or even moved up to Flyweight to fight Too Sharp. Then it would be a different story. But, those fights never happen. Ricardo Lopez for his weight-class has a solid resume and even the best that ever fought there. His could have been much better bad sadly it doesn't rank up there with Whitaker or Pac. It just doesn't... So no he is not greater, he is more skilled but not greater.

There is no way beating Marg takes manny to another level. Manny was a 5-1 favorite. SO this was expected, it wasn't a surprise. The TS wasn't discussing anything historical so you shouldn't either.

And this has nothing to do with floyd. But since you brought him up let me ask this. Did floyd beating Shane or Gatti (both fights he was huge favorite) raise his level of greatness? Of course not.

This was a great showcase for Manny's skill set. The 8th title is a great accomplishment. He is a unique and special fighter. Not the best I have evr seen and if anyone uses this fight to make that statement then they had better feel as strong or stronger about Shane Mosley.

I disagree, Well I agree with Gatti. Because, I thought Gatti had no chance and it was not threat. I would have to disagree with Shane. I thought before that fight Floyd was a borderline ATG. I personally did not have him a P4P ATG. I had him as an ATG, not the GOAT, but ATG at 130 but not P4P wise. However, his dominance over Shane proved to me anyways that yes Floyd was an ATG. Because, Shane was a legit threat, was an elite fighter. And, the best fighter he has fought since Castillo in 2002.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

I gave manny his credit. But genetically he has been able to do what other couldn't and he deserves the accolades to a degree. But I can't punish Lopez or Hagler because they didn't have the genetics to move up in weight. Manny is not better fighters then them but he has done something they didn't.

A skilled boxer like JMM, who is not where near SRL, floyd, or sweet pea, arguably beat manny twice. In the ring Manny has some slight flaws that can be exposed when the opponent boxes well (Morales another example).

Again, a 5-1 underdog was the bigger and stronger man. BUT HE WASNT THE BETTER MAN! Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I'm hating on manny.

Question, if you feel like this now then how did you feel after Shane beat tony,because, IMO Shane was more impressive?

Genetically able to move up in weight? What does that even mean? So because Manny moved up to the weight he is, that somehow takes away or makes this victory less impressive?

Manny's body isn't any different to able to carry the weight. If that was the case he wouldn't have come in a 144 lbs, he would have made 150 easily then but it didn't happen because he's so much more the smaller man.

Shane was more impressive but Shane is also much bigger and stronger than Manny. He's a natural WW and seeing Shane stand in front of Tony wasn't as big a surprise as Manny standing in front of Marg and destroying him the way he did.

Manny has no business fighting guys like Cotto, Marg or Clottey, yet he does it and not only wins, he DESTROYS them.

If that's not impressive, I don't know what is..........

[rommel357]

As impressed as i am of Manny as a fighter, i am more impressed of him as a human being. The fact that on both with Cotto and Marg, that he kept asking the ref to stop the fight and at the final round with Marg, he basically just stop fighting to show mercy. That says a lot about him. Not to take anything away from Marg, he is a beast, but that was pretty ****ing stupid and irresponsible of his corner for not stopping the fight. Now Marg has a broken eye socket, broken nose, and possibly have ended his career. Luckily he didn't get killed or have a brain damage.

[Mushroom]

Pac is the man. I don't think anyone can deny that after saturdays performance...........

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

As impressed as i am of Manny as a fighter, i am more impressed of him as a human being. The fact that on both with Cotto and Marg, that he kept asking the ref to stop the fight and at the final round with Marg, he basically just stop fighting to show mercy. That says a lot about him. Not to take anything away from Marg, he is a beast, but that was pretty ****ing stupid and irresponsible of his corner for not stopping the fight. Now Marg has a broken eye socket, broken nose, and possibly have ended his career. Luckily he didn't get killed or have a brain damage.

Your 100% right and what these people don't understand that was so impressive isn't that he beat Margarito (he was a 5-1 favorite) it was the WAY he did it.

So many people thought that Manny was going to go through a war, even Roach said it until the very end almost that he thought they might have bitten off more than they could chew with Marg's size and strength.


Marg is no bum, to those of you who think that, watch another sport. While Marg isn't elite, he's a hell of a fighter and his style is very troublesome for his opponents.

Manny destroyed him, walked through him and hit him at will. Then showed mercy at the end, Manny is not only an ATG fighter but he's an amazing person who has done so much for his country and the sport of boxing.

Manny is everything boxing should be about, Floyd is everything that is wrong with the sport.........

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

Your 100% right and what these people don't understand that was so impressive isn't that he beat Margarito (he was a 5-1 favorite) it was the WAY he did it.

So many people thought that Manny was going to go through a war, even Roach said it until the very end almost that he thought they might have bitten off more than they could chew with Marg's size and strength.


Marg is no bum, to those of you who think that, watch another sport. While Marg isn't elite, he's a hell of a fighter and his style is very troublesome for his opponents.

Manny destroyed him, walked through him and hit him at will. Then showed mercy at the end, Manny is not only an ATG fighter but he's an amazing person who has done so much for his country and the sport of boxing.

Manny is everything boxing should be about, Floyd is everything that is wrong with the sport.........

Who said this would be a war? Other than Pac stans?

He beat Marg the way many on here said he would. By darting in and out and tagging his ass. You act like you are shocked bro. If this shocked you than you mustve overrated the hell out of Margarito going in.