How can people easily forget?

[miron_lang]

p4p lists only go back about a year or a little more. thats why Mayweather after a year long vacation duck is now finally getting taken off the p4p lists. youre trying to reach back as far as 3 years.

That is FALSE to me and only TRUE to you and maybe to others.


p4p is super SUBJECTIVE. you can have your own list and nobody have the right to bash it.


This thread is just about PAC's competition it is SUPERB if you look at it in a mature manner.


Forum posters are just beng carried away including those writers. They believe everything they read in the forums. How can you consider a set of opposition who outweighs you by at least 15lbs each and call them easy?


IF there are no FORUMS today where haters can spew their bu_llSH_its and hates PAC would even be recognized in a higher regard.

[miron_lang]

There's nothing really to be said about Ricky Hatton other than the "New trainer teaching him a new style" thing which I've heard. That seems to me like the only one that seems true.

Obviously, Oscar De La Hoya was dehydrated/weight drained... nuff-said. Not his fault, but nothing to be truly amazed by.

Miguel Cotto certainly hasn't looked spectacular since the Margarito fight, but there's really little u can say about it. Funny thing is, everyone that predicted right (that actual made a legit prediction, and not just picked Pac becuz he's Filipino or whatever) all said "Pac by KO becuz Cotto is damaged goods"... Some people can see the little things quicker than others I guess...

There was absolutely no point in the Joshua Clottey fight. He comes off a loss to Cotto, whom Pacquiao just knocked out, was not a draw by any means, doesn't have an exciting style (Winky Wright was the only one that could do it and make it look good)... there was just no point.

Antonio Margarito came off a year's suspension, prior to which he got KO'd by Mosley. And this was for one of those record

Shane Mosley looked bad against Floyd. But u can't hold that against Shane becuz most opponents look bad against Floyd. BUT he also looked bad against Mora, and that almost just sealed the deal, Mosley is clearly faded. I would bet he retires after this fight, or at least after the following fight, in which he will probably face Berto, or some tomato can (assuming he wants to leave on a win).

Its not that those guys weren't good. It's that those guys weren't AS good when Pac fought them. Same could be said of Barrera and Morales... They were certainly fading when Pac got to them.

That being said, if ur worried Pac isn't getting his due credit, u need to pay more attention

Thats good.

But i have read the same bu_llsh_it so many times before with better fonts.

[Steak]

That is FALSE to me and only TRUE to you and maybe to others.


p4p is super SUBJECTIVE. you can have your own list and nobody have the right to bash it.


This thread is just about PAC's competition it is SUPERB if you look at it in a mature manner.


Forum posters are just beng carried away including those writers. They believe everything they read in the forums. How can you consider a set of opposition who outweighs you by at least 15lbs each and call them easy?


IF there are no FORUMS today where haters can spew their bu_llSH_its and hates PAC would even be recognized in a higher regard.

well, p4p lists are subjective, yes.

Pacquiao's competition is good, sure. but Martinez's has been better lately, thats all. I really dont think you should reach back too far to keep a fighter in the p4p lists personally, otherwise guys like Roy Jones or Marquez would be a lot higher right now.
its about what youve done lately...about a year or so. although thats just my opinion, and theres no set in stone criteria for p4p lists.

[miron_lang]

Rarely do fight fans forget, they simply overlook. If they like a fighter -- take Victor Ortiz for example -- they will make a loss seem like something that was a fluke. If it's a fighter they don't like -- say Floyd Mayweather for example -- they will say the fighters are shot and it was this or that.

Just the way fight fans are. With Floyd, they'll say that he ducked this guy or that guy. Fine. But, don't take away the fact that he HAS beaten Mosley, Hatton and De la Hoya before Pacquiao. However, Pacquiao has beaten two of the three more impressively has beaten some guys that Floyd hasn't faced.

So, it just depends on what you're looking for. Regardless, boxing fans will always look for what they want to see. Rarely do they see what's actually IS there.

Good Post.

Thanks for that contribution

[BennyST]

How can people **** Manny Pacquiao's recent opponents? what the **** is wrong with these people? Fighters losing automatically become shot fighters?

Would you pick undefeated Andre Berto to beat Shane Mosley?

Barrera got knocked out he came back and win again
Morales and Marquez lost they came back and win titles again.


Is the standard "Rank a fighter on his last loss"?

Manny Pacquiao's last 5 opponents

Ricky Hatton
Miguel Cotto
Joshua Clottey
Antonio Margarito
Shane Mosley

Ricky Hatton was undeafeated at 140 and was RING Lineal Champion ( Given )

Now after the DLH fight in 2008 ( which was Pac's 1st @147 ) here is the RING Welterweight Rankings

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Th...rweight--2000s

1. Antonio Margarito
2. Miguel Angel Cotto
3. Shane Mosley
4. Joshua Clottey
5. Manny Pacquiao
6. Carlos Quintana
7. Zab Judah
8. Luis Collazo
9. Andre Berto
10. Isaac Hlatshwayo



So Entering the Welterweight Division in 2008 PAC has fought and will fight all the TOP 5 Welterweights!




***

Yeah i understand the Made to order, Plodding fighter, tailor made, hasnt look good in awhile, peds and all the others ****s.


Please respond with actual data and educated opinion pls

Although I know what you mean, Barrera, Marquez and Morales were all in their prime still when they first loss and came back. They were also great fighters.

Mosley is 40 year old and hasn't won his last two fights and has actually looked shot. Big difference. Being in your prime and losing by KO (Barrera) is very, very, very different to being at the end of your career and not actually being a great fighter in the first place. Morales getting knocked out by Pac is a classic example. In his prime Morales would have won all their fights. They would have looked like the first one, but even easier for him (not that it was easy!). As it was, he was knocked out because things didn't work properly anymore. Mosley has that. His stamina, which used to be great, is terrible now. His speed is gone and his combination punching is lacking.

Clottey, as much as I like him, is not actually a good fighter. In any other era (apart from todays twenty titles a division era) he wouldn't have ever won a title and he's still lost every major fight he's had.

Margarito had clearly lost something major after being knocked out, cheating, suspended etc. After being iron chinned and a solid champion, he'd been dominated like never before, hit and beaten so badly that it was, before it had even ended, been an obvious career ending beating. Barrera took one big punch at the start of his career in short fight that was even....Margarito took nine rounds of those KO punches flush to the body and head as a +30 year old, slow, defenseless hack before finally folding. He was done as a top fighter. He was also not ranked (in reality, not the BS that gave him the No1 spot at 154) when Pac fought him.

Cotto was a great win, but again, he'd recently been knocked out and had looked different. Barrera came back looking better having fixed what was wrong. Cotto came back looking more vulnerable than ever.

Hatton should not have been the lineal champ and was clearly not close to the best fighter at 140 anymore. Again, at the end of his career and had looked terrible and vulnerable like never before after his KO loss, not better.

I know what you mean and they have all been good wins, but they are all in similar positions. Big names, but not great wins because they were all different fighter than they had been.

It would be like saying Kirkland Laing beat a prime Roberto Duran. He had come back from losses before and did after that loss. You only need to see him fight before and after the first and second Leonard fight to see something had been lost between those first and second fights though. He had climbed the mountain, had proven the world wrong and done everything possible in his career and had no more passion/anger etc after the first one, then was humiliated in the New Orleans rematch which further killed him and that passion. Just because he was Duran didn't mean Laing beat Manos De Piedra. It's the same with those guys. Beating the name doesn't mean you are beating the legend. These guys aren't even legends, and some aren't even very good really. Hatton, Clottey and Margarito are overrated simply by fighting Pac. They were, or have, been made out to be better than they ever were in the first place in their primes.

Just because Pac's fighting Mosley doesn't mean he's fighting the guy that beat Oscar. The fact is he's not a good fighter anymore and quite a few of them weren't what they had been.

Each and every one of those guys you listed, Pac's recent fights, were all: past their best, lost recent fights badly but most obvious were or are at the end of their careers. They are not greats (well, Mosley is....certainly not now though) like Barrera, Marquez or Morales though.

When Barrera lost he was about twenty and he came back and changed and kept changing. These guys are all past it, old and losing because they are past it, shot, old etc. Not because they are still getting better.

[miron_lang]

well, p4p lists are subjective, yes.

Pacquiao's competition is good, sure. but Martinez's has been better lately, thats all. I really dont think you should reach back too far to keep a fighter in the p4p lists personally, otherwise guys like Roy Jones or Marquez would be a lot higher right now.
its about what youve done lately...about a year or so. although thats just my opinion, and theres no set in stone criteria for p4p lists.

ok since you put more emphasis on the more recent fights. lets talk about the last 2.

Dzinruk -
Williams -

Margarito -
Clottey -


Williams > Margarito and Clottey but

Margarito and Clottey > Dzinruk


i say its even why?

Dzinruk came from 154 to fight Serg who is a middleweight for a while. And who has Dzin has beaten that is at level of these fighters?

Dzin Victory was blown way out of reality. People are acting like he kayoed another Paul Williams.

[danny711]

How can people **** Manny Pacquiao's recent opponents? what the **** is wrong with these people? Fighters losing automatically become shot fighters?

Would you pick undefeated Andre Berto to beat Shane Mosley?

Barrera got knocked out he came back and win again
Morales and Marquez lost they came back and win titles again.


Is the standard "Rank a fighter on his last loss"?

Manny Pacquiao's last 5 opponents

Ricky Hatton
Miguel Cotto
Joshua Clottey
Antonio Margarito
Shane Mosley

Ricky Hatton was undeafeated at 140 and was RING Lineal Champion ( Given )

Now after the DLH fight in 2008 ( which was Pac's 1st @147 ) here is the RING Welterweight Rankings

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Th...rweight--2000s

1. Antonio Margarito
2. Miguel Angel Cotto
3. Shane Mosley
4. Joshua Clottey
5. Manny Pacquiao
6. Carlos Quintana
7. Zab Judah
8. Luis Collazo
9. Andre Berto
10. Isaac Hlatshwayo



So Entering the Welterweight Division in 2008 PAC has fought and will fight all the TOP 5 Welterweights!




***

Yeah i understand the Made to order, Plodding fighter, tailor made, hasnt look good in awhile, peds and all the others ****s.


Please respond with actual data and educated opinion pls

Forgot or haters denying.

I vote for denying.

[miron_lang]

Although I know what you mean, Barrera, Marquez and Morales were all in their prime still when they first loss and came back. They were also great fighters.

Mosley is 40 year old and hasn't won his last two fights and has actually looked shot. Big difference. Being in your prime and losing by KO (Barrera) is very, very, very different to being at the end of your career and not actually being a great fighter in the first place. Morales getting knocked out by Pac is a classic example. In his prime Morales would have won all their fights. They would have looked like the first one, but even easier for him (not that it was easy!). As it was, he was knocked out because things didn't work properly anymore. Mosley has that. His stamina, which used to be great, is terrible now. His speed is gone and his combination punching is lacking.

Clottey, as much as I like him, is not actually a good fighter. In any other era (apart from todays twenty titles a division era) he wouldn't have ever won a title and he's still lost every major fight he's had.

Margarito had clearly lost something major after being knocked out, cheating, suspended etc. After being iron chinned and a solid champion, he'd been dominated like never before, hit and beaten so badly that it was, before it had even ended, been an obvious career ending beating. Barrera took one big punch at the start of his career in short fight that was even....Margarito took nine rounds of those KO punches flush to the body and head as a +30 year old, slow, defenseless hack before finally folding. He was done as a top fighter. He was also not ranked (in reality, not the BS that gave him the No1 spot at 154) when Pac fought him.

Cotto was a great win, but again, he'd recently been knocked out and had looked different. Barrera came back looking better having fixed what was wrong. Cotto came back looking more vulnerable than ever.

Hatton should not have been the lineal champ and was clearly not close to the best fighter at 140 anymore. Again, at the end of his career and had looked terrible and vulnerable like never before after his KO loss, not better.

I know what you mean and they have all been good wins, but they are all in similar positions. Big names, but not great wins because they were all different fighter than they had been.

It would be like saying Kirkland Laing beat a prime Roberto Duran. He had come back from losses before and did after that loss. You only need to see him fight before and after the first and second Leonard fight to see something had been lost between those first and second fights though. He had climbed the mountain, had proven the world wrong and done everything possible in his career and had no more passion/anger etc after the first one, then was humiliated in the New Orleans rematch which further killed him and that passion. Just because he was Duran didn't mean Laing beat Manos De Piedra. It's the same with those guys. Beating the name doesn't mean you are beating the legend. These guys aren't even legends, and some aren't even very good really. Hatton, Clottey and Margarito are overrated simply by fighting Pac. They were, or have, been made out to be better than they ever were in the first place in their primes.

Just because Pac's fighting Mosley doesn't mean he's fighting the guy that beat Oscar. The fact is he's not a good fighter anymore and quite a few of them weren't what they had been.

Each and every one of those guys you listed, Pac's recent fights, were all: past their best, lost recent fights badly but most obvious were or are at the end of their careers. They are not greats (well, Mosley is....certainly not now though) like Barrera, Marquez or Morales though.

When Barrera lost he was about twenty and he came back and changed and kept changing. These guys are all past it, old and losing because they are past it, shot, old etc. Not because they are still getting better.

very good post overall... but if you put emphasis on the 4 fighters involved.

None of them have lost to a non elite fighter which is the more accurate way of gauging whether they still have it or not.

Roy lost to bums. yeah for sure he is shot. But these 4. they only lost to people ranked within them.


Do you not consider Kostya Tsyu as lineal champ when Hatton beat him? What do you mean by Hatton shoud not have been the lineal champ?

[JDezi4]

I agree.

Manny last five wins are better than Sergio.

Martinez is 3-1-1, while Manny has completely dominated his opposition.

Clottey is better than Cintron.

Hatton win = Pavlik Win

Cotto win >>>Williams win

Dzin win > Margarito win

However the Martinez should have dominated and KO'd Cintron bit didn't and he also lost to Williams.

People are just hating but I'm glad The Ring and others aren't blinded but his 3 hot wins. :*******:

The Ring still has Floyd at #2

Clottey a better win the Cintron? Clottey, who just stood there and blocked is a better win than Cintron, who was actually trying to win? Only thing Martinez getting a draw over Cintron, and not the win he deserved, did was keep Martinez lower on the p4p list when he should be higher.

Hatton = Pavlick? Hatton, who's style is taylor-made for Pacquiao, size is almost equal to Pacquiao (but with a shorter reach) and turns out to have a weaker chin than we once thought is a better win than the taller, bigger, boxer puncher, with serious power, that is Kelly Pavlick?

Cotto > Williams? Maybe... Let's take into mind Williams had recently fought Martinez to a stand-still in the first fight, which makes the second round 1-punch KO all the more impressive. But Cotto is still a good fighter... So I'll give u that one.

Dzin > Margarito? Lmao, WHAT? As overrated as that win over Margarito was, who the hell is Dzin? Apparently he has a great jab... what else did u hear about him? And this one actually favors Pacquiao... ';| wtf?

[JDezi4]

Although I know what you mean, Barrera, Marquez and Morales were all in their prime still when they first loss and came back. They were also great fighters.

Mosley is 40 year old and hasn't won his last two fights and has actually looked shot. Big difference. Being in your prime and losing by KO (Barrera) is very, very, very different to being at the end of your career and not actually being a great fighter in the first place. Morales getting knocked out by Pac is a classic example. In his prime Morales would have won all their fights. They would have looked like the first one, but even easier for him (not that it was easy!). As it was, he was knocked out because things didn't work properly anymore. Mosley has that. His stamina, which used to be great, is terrible now. His speed is gone and his combination punching is lacking.

Clottey, as much as I like him, is not actually a good fighter. In any other era (apart from todays twenty titles a division era) he wouldn't have ever won a title and he's still lost every major fight he's had.

Margarito had clearly lost something major after being knocked out, cheating, suspended etc. After being iron chinned and a solid champion, he'd been dominated like never before, hit and beaten so badly that it was, before it had even ended, been an obvious career ending beating. Barrera took one big punch at the start of his career in short fight that was even....Margarito took nine rounds of those KO punches flush to the body and head as a +30 year old, slow, defenseless hack before finally folding. He was done as a top fighter. He was also not ranked (in reality, not the BS that gave him the No1 spot at 154) when Pac fought him.

Cotto was a great win, but again, he'd recently been knocked out and had looked different. Barrera came back looking better having fixed what was wrong. Cotto came back looking more vulnerable than ever.

Hatton should not have been the lineal champ and was clearly not close to the best fighter at 140 anymore. Again, at the end of his career and had looked terrible and vulnerable like never before after his KO loss, not better.

I know what you mean and they have all been good wins, but they are all in similar positions. Big names, but not great wins because they were all different fighter than they had been.

It would be like saying Kirkland Laing beat a prime Roberto Duran. He had come back from losses before and did after that loss. You only need to see him fight before and after the first and second Leonard fight to see something had been lost between those first and second fights though. He had climbed the mountain, had proven the world wrong and done everything possible in his career and had no more passion/anger etc after the first one, then was humiliated in the New Orleans rematch which further killed him and that passion. Just because he was Duran didn't mean Laing beat Manos De Piedra. It's the same with those guys. Beating the name doesn't mean you are beating the legend. These guys aren't even legends, and some aren't even very good really. Hatton, Clottey and Margarito are overrated simply by fighting Pac. They were, or have, been made out to be better than they ever were in the first place in their primes.

Just because Pac's fighting Mosley doesn't mean he's fighting the guy that beat Oscar. The fact is he's not a good fighter anymore and quite a few of them weren't what they had been.

Each and every one of those guys you listed, Pac's recent fights, were all: past their best, lost recent fights badly but most obvious were or are at the end of their careers. They are not greats (well, Mosley is....certainly not now though) like Barrera, Marquez or Morales though.

When Barrera lost he was about twenty and he came back and changed and kept changing. These guys are all past it, old and losing because they are past it, shot, old etc. Not because they are still getting better.

Bravo Bravo Bravo
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