Why all the hate for Cotto?

[thatdudespits]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatdudespits

your stupidity holds no bounds. A paper champion?... you continue to discredit yourself...


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Compare his vacant belt fights to a guy that was an actual champion. Go!!

so ur saying Cotto was not an ACTUAL champion?

its really more important who he defended his titles against... and we all know Cotto never ducked anyone.


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[Mr. Fantastic]

so ur saying Cotto was not an ACTUAL champion?

its really more important who he defended his titles against... and we all know Cotto never ducked anyone.


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You know what I was saying. No one has won more vacant belts than Cotto in recent times. I may be wrong but I would love to know who has more if that isn't the case.

The Cotto never ducked anyone is one of the biggest myths in boxing.

It's not hate, it's people like you that think dude is beyond the stars and make him out to be something he's not.

[thatdudespits]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatdudespits

so ur saying Cotto was not an ACTUAL champion?

its really more important who he defended his titles against... and we all know Cotto never ducked anyone.


Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

You know what I was saying. No one has won more vacant belts than Cotto in recent times. I may be wrong but I would love to know who has more if that isn't the case.

The Cotto never ducked anyone is one of the biggest myths in boxing.

It's not hate, it's people like you that think dude is beyond the stars and make him out to be something he's not.

if you say something back it up with facts like i do...
who did cotto duck... debunk the myth for me... who did he duck and when?


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[thatdudespits]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatdudespits

so ur saying Cotto was not an ACTUAL champion?

its really more important who he defended his titles against... and we all know Cotto never ducked anyone.


Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

You know what I was saying. No one has won more vacant belts than Cotto in recent times. I may be wrong but I would love to know who has more if that isn't the case.

The Cotto never ducked anyone is one of the biggest myths in boxing.

It's not hate, it's people like you that think dude is beyond the stars and make him out to be something he's not.

by the way... what am I making him out to be?

I've stated facts.

and my opinion is Cotto is an elite fighter... one of the best of his generation... I've made no other assertions... I haven't said he is an all time great... I haven't said he can beat this fighter or that fighter... I simply believe the guy is a great fighter with a great resume from top to bottom... hes never been in a bad fight.... never put out a less than stellar performance.... always comes to win... hes a blood guts and glory type of fighter... anyone that loves the sport of boxing should respect him... i think he is a HOFer for sure... please let me know if i have said something that is untrue.

you know the 80's had their fantastic 4.... Leonard, Hearns, Haggler, and duran...

I believe we have witnessed another with Mayweather, Pacquiao, Cotto, and Marquez

I'll leave it at that.


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[montoya_91]

Cotto ducked Sergio Martinez.
Martinez even called him out in the show golpe/golpe.
But, please do not make me write an essay about it.

[S. Saddler 1310]

your stupidity holds no bounds. A paper champion?... you continue to discredit yourself...

you are the fellow who said Quintana was equivalent to Vargas. you should probably cool it with the "stupidity" remarks.

did i or did i not say that, in this day and age of multiple alphabet titlists, i consider the majority of modern belt-holders to be paper champions? many of today's champions would just be contenders of varying quality if we had one Championship per division.

i did say that i give credit to Cotto for two solid runs defending paper titles at 140 and 147. he has some creditable wins on his CV from those periods.

but he never cleared a division of his best rivals. that is what is required to prove yourself a Champion (as opposed to a 'champion') in these times. many men can hold belts. Gavin Rees held a belt. before him, Souleymane M'baye held a belt. was Cotto better than the average belt-holder? sure. did he ever establish himself as the king of a division beyond reasonable doubt? no. he was getting there at '47, but ran into the guy who had been perceived as the real threat to the division for some time.

if not by clearing out a division, Cotto could have proven undeniable Championship caliber had he established himself as an elite fighter by showing that he could live with a proven elite fighter. unfortunately, Cotto couldn't even live with Margarito. Pacquiao completely blew him away.

has he been an elite draw? yes, the biggest outside of Pacquiao and Mayweather. is there more to being an elite fighter than how many PPV's you sell and how many times you can sell out MSG? absolutely. Gatti sold out Boardwalk Hall an unprecedented number of times for a boxer.

who of cotto's generation is elite to you?

define "Cotto's generation". his career has bridged generations. give me a specific timeframe.

[thatdudespits]

Cotto ducked Sergio Martinez.
Martinez even called him out in the show golpe/golpe.
But, please do not make me write an essay about it.

i know exactly what u speak of.... Cotto said there was no money in a bout with sergio....long before sergio had his first PPV

after sergio beat chavez Cotto said he was open to facing sergio for his middleweight crown...

i guess this is a duck in the same way floyd ducks martinez....Martinez is all talk...calls people out and schedules a fight the next day to take himself out of contention... Martinez is quite content to rematch chavez after Murray taking himself out of the running for any fight....like Martinez faced a top middleweight after a mentally weakend Pavlik...like he will ever face a top middleweight again

if Cotto or Mayweather were middleweights and not fighting sergio....then u could call it ducking... and sergo moving down to 154? at the end of the day its PRIZEFIGHTING.... why fight Martinez when you can fight Canelo for 3 or 4 times the money?


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[thatdudespits]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatdudespits

your stupidity holds no bounds. A paper champion?... you continue to discredit yourself...

you are the fellow who said Quintana was equivalent to Vargas. you should probably cool it with the "stupidity" remarks.

did i or did i not say that, in this day and age of multiple alphabet titlists, i consider the majority of modern belt-holders to be paper champions? many of today's champions would just be contenders of varying quality if we had one Championship per division.

i did say that i give credit to Cotto for two solid runs defending paper titles at 140 and 147. he has some creditable wins on his CV from those periods.

but he never cleared a division of his best rivals. that is what is required to prove yourself a Champion (as opposed to a 'champion') in these times. many men can hold belts. Gavin Rees held a belt. before him, Souleymane M'baye held a belt. was Cotto better than the average belt-holder? sure. did he ever establish himself as the king of a division beyond reasonable doubt? no. he was getting there at '47, but ran into the guy who had been perceived as the real threat to the division for some time.

if not by clearing out a division, Cotto could have proven undeniable Championship caliber had he established himself as an elite fighter by showing that he could live with a proven elite fighter. unfortunately, Cotto couldn't even live with Margarito. Pacquiao completely blew him away.

has he been an elite draw? yes, the biggest outside of Pacquiao and Mayweather. is there more to being an elite fighter than how many PPV's you sell and how many times you can sell out MSG? absolutely. Gatti sold out Boardwalk Hall an unprecedented number of times for a boxer.



Quote:

Originally Posted by thatdudespits

who of cotto's generation is elite to you?

define "Cotto's generation". his career has bridged generations. give me a specific timeframe.

I will make it very specific.... 04' - 12' ...140lb-154lb

BTW clearing out a division is not all on the fighter... lineal champions are rare because everything has to be perfect to make something like that happen (promotional disputes, ducking, etc.) ... Zab Judah was once the undisputed welterweight champion... is he elite and Cotto not? you have to use your brain when analyzing things...


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[jri9d0]

doesnt mean he was prime.

Neither was all the 86 year old bums Canelo fought yet you still praise him despite.

Without a doubt a quintessential DOUBLE STANDARD!!!!!

[S. Saddler 1310]

2004-'12, the undoubtable elites of the sport who have entered the 140-154lb weight range are Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather and Juan Manuel Marquez, period (the elites from the preceding 8 year timeframe had all faded some by that time).

Cotto isn't in any of those guys' class.

BTW clearing out a division is not all on the fighter...

true, but we can't just speculate that Cotto would've beaten, say, Ricky Hatton (who was the lineal)...we have to actually see it to acclaim him for it.

Zab Judah was once the undisputed welterweight champion... is he elite and Cotto not?

well, you maybe could read a little more carefully. i didn't say that being an undisputed champion necessarily makes you one of the sport's elite. i will say that clearing a division of your best rivals or defeating the guy who is recognized as 'the man' in the division is the best way to establish yourself as a true Champion in the modern game. boxing's elite are a whole other category.

Judah did do something that Cotto never did, which is beat the recognized champ (Spinks, who beat the recognized champ in Mayorga, who beat the recognized champ in Forrest). that said, i believe Cotto was/is a better fighter than Judah and has a better resume, all told. he is a Championship caliber fighter (one of the better titlists, like i previously stated), so it's unfortunate that he never won a Championship and only won paper titles. he was on his way at 147 - he would've been the man there had he beaten Margarito and then Williams (Judah, Mosley, Margarito, Williams would have been a very strong run, although it's likely Williams would've gotten frustrated at not getting a shot and moved up, leaving Cotto at the top of the heap), but...