90's foreman Vs 90's tyson

[K-DOGG]

Foreman too big, too strong, too tough mentally.

The following exerpt comes from an article by boxing writer Frank Lotierzo.

In the subsequent months following Foreman's victory over Cooney and Douglas' upset of Tyson, there was much talk of a Foreman-Tyson fight. It was a potential fight that captured the public's imagination, and not just the boxing public. In fact, there were several reports that the fight was signed and about to be announced. ESPN Sportscenter devoted numerous segments on the fight assuming it was going to happen. Shortly thereafter, there was an announcement that Foreman and Tyson were going to fight on the same card. In late April of 1990, it was announced that Foreman and Tyson would be fighting a co-main event on June 16 to be broadcast on HBO. Foreman's opponent was Adilson Rodrigues, who was ranked in the top ten by two of the major sanctioning bodies. Tyson's opponent was the unranked Henry Tillman. Tillman was best known for beating Tyson twice in the 1984 Olympic trials.

At this time, Evander Holyfield was getting ready for his sixth fight as a heavyweight against Seamus McDonagh on June 1 in Atlantic City. On the day of the Holyfield-McDonagh fight, I went to grab something to eat with Georgie Benton, Lou Duva and Bobby Goodman. At the time, Goodman was, and still is, Don King's matchmaker. I've known Benton for many years, through him I met Duva, and was introduced to Goodman a couple weeks before Tyson fought Larry Holmes at the Convention Center in Atlantic City in January 1988.

While we were eating, Benton said, "Bobby, what's up with Foreman and Tyson, how come they're not fighting each other on the 16th? Isn't that the fight that King was trying to make?" He said, " Georgie,You'll never believe this but, ****in' Tyson is scared ****less of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fightin' that ****in' animal, if you love the mother****er so much, you fight him!'"

Goodman stated that Tyson said Foreman was much better than people thought, and was a dangerous fight for any of the top heavyweights. Goodman proceeded to explain how Tyson was calling Foreman a big con man, and explained that the grandpop act was just a front. He said Tyson saw Foreman as trying to set up the boxing world into thinking he was a pushover, knowing that he really wasn't. Tyson said Foreman was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Goodman continued to say that after seeing Tyson's response to King trying to push him into a fight with Foreman, he had no doubt that Tyson had fear of Foreman. He also said that from that point on, he felt that if Foreman and Tyson ever fought, Foreman would knock Tyson out!

Throughout the lunch Goodman, Duva, Benton, and myself shared stories and thoughts on the fight game. Out of the blue Goodman said, "Oh I remember why else Tyson wanted no parts of Foreman. He said that King had found out from Steve Lott that Tyson and Cus D'Amato used to watch the Frazier-Foreman fight over and over." He continued saying that Tyson loved that fight because he was awed by Foreman's power and Frazier's toughness and how he kept getting up after every knockdown. He also said that Lott told King that Cus sat alongside Tyson saying, "It's suicide against Foreman if you're short and fight a swarming attacking style like Marciano or Frazier," never figuring that Foreman could be a possible Tyson opponent down the road. He said that Cus said the only fighters who had a chance against Foreman were, tall rangy fighters who could fight him from a distance while moving away from him, and no way any swarmer could beat Foreman by going to him.

Those are the words of the man who actually had a hand in trying to make the Foreman-Tyson fight, and was in the room when the negotiations broke down. Over the years, I've talked to many people who were involved with Tyson and Foreman and they all verify the story, every one of them. I have also talked to people who were involved with promoting Foreman, including Ron Weathers who promoted a few of Foreman's comeback fights. He told me the same story. The fight didn't happen because of Tyson being fearful of losing to George. Bob Arum also said that he dreamed of making Foreman-Tyson. He said it would be huge money and that Foreman would stop Tyson easier than he did Frazier. This is something Arum often repeated to the press. I have also heard this from George's brother Roy who was his business manager. I co-hosted a boxing show with Roy in Atlantic City for a little less than two months and this was a regular topic when discussing Tyson. Anyone who covered boxing at the time or knew any of the involved parties knew of this. It's not breaking news

Yup, I've read the same thing. Now, whether or not Foreman was actually a "wolf in sheep's clothing" we don't really know. But, if you look at the Cooney fight and compare it to all the other fights Foreman had in the years prior, you can see a huge shift in his motivation and even his hand speed.

My personal belief is Tyson would have had trouble with Foreman, even an old Foreman, based on style. George was the immovable object and Tyson only had one gear...forward. George had a good chin and deadly uppercuts, which would have been hitting Tyson on the way in....Foreman, even an old one, beats Tyson IMHO.

[Mike Tyson77]

The 90's Foreman is stronger than anyone Tyson fought, had a better chin than anyone Tyson fought, was mentally tougher than anyone Tyson had fought up until Holyfield, and had a harder jab than anyone Tyson fought.

Holyfield said Foreman hit harder than Lennox Lewis, so if we can go by Holyfield who would know better than any one of us, Foreman would be the hardest hitter Tyson ever fought. Anyone that thinks this fight is a mismatch when this version of Tyson was taken 12 rounds by a one-armed, one punch Razor Ruddock is not being objective. Ruddock is inferior to Foreman in all of the above categories.

WOW! Tyson must be the GREATEST! When youre disapponited in a fighter for winning a UD and knocking the other guy down TWICE, you gotta be the greatest man! 12 rounds huh? That's right, Tyson TKO'd Ruddock the first fight knocking him down TWICE also. He must be the greatest.....

[Yogi]

When youre disapponited in a fighter for winning a UD and knocking the other guy down TWICE, you gotta be the greatest man! 12 rounds huh? That's right, Tyson TKO'd Ruddock the first fight knocking him down TWICE also. He must be the greatest.....

I don't know why you'd want to emphasize the knockdowns Tyson scored against Ruddock by capitalizing them, because with the exception of possibly one there was nothing emphatic about them at all...In fact, the first knockdown Tyson scored in their first shouldn't have even been counted as such, because to me that was an obviously slip as Tyson didn't nearly land the punch that supposedly put Ruddock down.

Also the two knockdowns Tyson scored in the rematch were of the "ho hum" variety, as Ruddock was down for about four or five seconds in total time when including both of them. Once was from a glancing shot that barely looked to land & once was from a sneaky right hand counter that caught Ruddock when he may have been a little bit off balance (looked so)...Ruddock picked himself up quickly on both occasions and didn't appear to be at all hurt from the punches that put him down.

Three legitimate knockdowns in their two fights, but two were of the "flash knockdown" variety. And of course, the incorrect call that Steele made on the first knockdown wasn't the only **** up he made in that first fight...The stoppage was pretty much bull****, as well.

But whatever...I have a slightly higher opinion of Ruddock than does Sabbath, I'm sure, and for all-around performances against a fighter very willing and fairly capable of competing with him, I thought the Ruddock fights were some of the best I saw of Tyson was his pre-prison days.

[Yogi]

** I've never run across that quote except when quoted by others. I asked George about Quarry rumors, and he only said that Quarry was a counter puncher that made a tough fight. On his old website he listed Quarry quite highly among heavies who never won a title.

He also said he never sparred with Quarry or considered a fight with him. Jerry lost every championship fight he was in, but George has a respect for him nonetheless.

Well since he defeated Lyle, Quarry was pretty emphatic in calling for a title shot against Foreman and just over a week after defeating Roman, Foreman was reported to "indicate" that he was willing to give Jerry a shot at the title (early Nov of 1973 was the indication as to when it was to take place)...And within a couple of days of Foreman reportedly making those statements is when the offers started coming in from around the states, and from what I read they were for well over a million bucks ($1.5 million was offered on a couple of occasions...not exactly the $5 million purse he made for Ali, but still pretty damn good for the time).

But obviously Big George didn't accept the offers for whatever reason and apparently there was a little bit of a fuss made in the press over the fact that he wouldn't sign to fight Quarry, as well as the organizations making a little bit out of it (the WBA threatened Foreman in Nov to start serious negotiations with Quarry or Ali).

[Brassangel]

I almost forgot about the Ruddock fights. Those were pretty good. Can anyone post them here for convenience?

[QueensburyRules]

Foreman too big, too strong, too tough mentally.

The following exerpt comes from an article by boxing writer Frank Lotierzo.

In the subsequent months following Foreman's victory over Cooney and Douglas' upset of Tyson, there was much talk of a Foreman-Tyson fight. It was a potential fight that captured the public's imagination, and not just the boxing public. In fact, there were several reports that the fight was signed and about to be announced. ESPN Sportscenter devoted numerous segments on the fight assuming it was going to happen. Shortly thereafter, there was an announcement that Foreman and Tyson were going to fight on the same card. In late April of 1990, it was announced that Foreman and Tyson would be fighting a co-main event on June 16 to be broadcast on HBO. Foreman's opponent was Adilson Rodrigues, who was ranked in the top ten by two of the major sanctioning bodies. Tyson's opponent was the unranked Henry Tillman. Tillman was best known for beating Tyson twice in the 1984 Olympic trials.

At this time, Evander Holyfield was getting ready for his sixth fight as a heavyweight against Seamus McDonagh on June 1 in Atlantic City. On the day of the Holyfield-McDonagh fight, I went to grab something to eat with Georgie Benton, Lou Duva and Bobby Goodman. At the time, Goodman was, and still is, Don King's matchmaker. I've known Benton for many years, through him I met Duva, and was introduced to Goodman a couple weeks before Tyson fought Larry Holmes at the Convention Center in Atlantic City in January 1988.

While we were eating, Benton said, "Bobby, what's up with Foreman and Tyson, how come they're not fighting each other on the 16th? Isn't that the fight that King was trying to make?" He said, " Georgie,You'll never believe this but, ****in' Tyson is scared ****less of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fightin' that ****in' animal, if you love the mother****er so much, you fight him!'"

Goodman stated that Tyson said Foreman was much better than people thought, and was a dangerous fight for any of the top heavyweights. Goodman proceeded to explain how Tyson was calling Foreman a big con man, and explained that the grandpop act was just a front. He said Tyson saw Foreman as trying to set up the boxing world into thinking he was a pushover, knowing that he really wasn't. Tyson said Foreman was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Goodman continued to say that after seeing Tyson's response to King trying to push him into a fight with Foreman, he had no doubt that Tyson had fear of Foreman. He also said that from that point on, he felt that if Foreman and Tyson ever fought, Foreman would knock Tyson out!

Throughout the lunch Goodman, Duva, Benton, and myself shared stories and thoughts on the fight game. Out of the blue Goodman said, "Oh I remember why else Tyson wanted no parts of Foreman. He said that King had found out from Steve Lott that Tyson and Cus D'Amato used to watch the Frazier-Foreman fight over and over." He continued saying that Tyson loved that fight because he was awed by Foreman's power and Frazier's toughness and how he kept getting up after every knockdown. He also said that Lott told King that Cus sat alongside Tyson saying, "It's suicide against Foreman if you're short and fight a swarming attacking style like Marciano or Frazier," never figuring that Foreman could be a possible Tyson opponent down the road. He said that Cus said the only fighters who had a chance against Foreman were, tall rangy fighters who could fight him from a distance while moving away from him, and no way any swarmer could beat Foreman by going to him.

Those are the words of the man who actually had a hand in trying to make the Foreman-Tyson fight, and was in the room when the negotiations broke down. Over the years, I've talked to many people who were involved with Tyson and Foreman and they all verify the story, every one of them. I have also talked to people who were involved with promoting Foreman, including Ron Weathers who promoted a few of Foreman's comeback fights. He told me the same story. The fight didn't happen because of Tyson being fearful of losing to George. Bob Arum also said that he dreamed of making Foreman-Tyson. He said it would be huge money and that Foreman would stop Tyson easier than he did Frazier. This is something Arum often repeated to the press. I have also heard this from George's brother Roy who was his business manager. I co-hosted a boxing show with Roy in Atlantic City for a little less than two months and this was a regular topic when discussing Tyson. Anyone who covered boxing at the time or knew any of the involved parties knew of this. It's not breaking news

- -While all that may be true from Frank, an honorable man, fact is the Chinese had already offered a staggering $25 mil for that fight, the details of which were being hammered out before Tyson and Buster were ever an item.

2 things happened to kill that fight.

Stew on that...

[QueensburyRules]

I don't know why you'd want to emphasize the knockdowns Tyson scored against Ruddock by capitalizing them, because with the exception of possibly one there was nothing emphatic about them at all...In fact, the first knockdown Tyson scored in their first shouldn't have even been counted as such, because to me that was an obviously slip as Tyson didn't nearly land the punch that supposedly put Ruddock down.

Also the two knockdowns Tyson scored in the rematch were of the "ho hum" variety, as Ruddock was down for about four or five seconds in total time when including both of them. Once was from a glancing shot that barely looked to land & once was from a sneaky right hand counter that caught Ruddock when he may have been a little bit off balance (looked so)...Ruddock picked himself up quickly on both occasions and didn't appear to be at all hurt from the punches that put him down.

Three legitimate knockdowns in their two fights, but two were of the "flash knockdown" variety. And of course, the incorrect call that Steele made on the first knockdown wasn't the only **** up he made in that first fight...The stoppage was pretty much bull****, as well.

But whatever...I have a slightly higher opinion of Ruddock than does Sabbath, I'm sure, and for all-around performances against a fighter very willing and fairly capable of competing with him, I thought the Ruddock fights were some of the best I saw of Tyson was his pre-prison days.

- -Agreed, Yogi, but at some point Tyson broke Razors jaw.

A very forgotten great series of fights.