I love light-skinned black chicks!

[Xercen]

You sure that you have a degree in genetics? To be clear, there is no one black phenotype in regards to hair texture, body shape, body type, or skin color. Sub-Saharan Africa is one of, if not the most, genetically diverse places on the planet. Genotypically there are greater differences intraracially than there are interracially. These differences are very clear regionally (a Nigerian vs. a Somalian, for example). Race (a completely social construct, by the way) actually has less to do with your appearance than where your family comes from regionally. Were are all Africans jet black prior to European colonization and genetic exchange? The answer is most probably no. The exact same can be said for nearly every racial group. It's almost like saying that there is one white phenotype and that a brown/tan European has to be "mixed" with something. Not quite. There were/are plenty of dark southern Europeans and they were most probably still dark prior to the Arab-Moorish conquests.

Sorry to jump in on this argument. Was scanning this thread *ahem* and couldn't help but to take part. Good stuff.

So basically you are saying that spanish people are dark skinned white people because of the arabic/moor influence.

So i don't understand why you are making a post agreeing with me.

Also i never said that black people didn't have different shades of black phenotypes. I said that light skinned (aka pretty much very very light yellowish brown) is the product of white/east asian ancestry which is very true for the most part.

If you think light skinned black people are naturally occuring in africa and not the product of interracial relationships then you must be mad.

Below is a map showing european influence in africa.

[happyman]

Rashida Jones is the only one that comes to mind

[Xercen]

Rashida Jones is the only one that comes to mind

rashida jones has a white mom dude

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Lipton

[A7glow]

No, I'm not. Read my post carefully. They were dark-skinned priorto Arab-Moorish conquests. The sun, you know, has the tendency to do that. And thank you for defining what you mean by "light-skin." However, if that is your definition, then, again, a good deal of women in this thread are not "light-skin." But you seemed to be arguing that lighter-toned (brown, golden-brown) did not exist in Africa naturally, which is untrue.

[happyman]

rashida jones has a white mom dude

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Lipton

so?????????????

[Xercen]

No, I'm not. Read my post carefully. They were dark-skinned priorto Arab-Moorish conquests. The sun, you know, has the tendency to do that. And thank you for defining what you mean by "light-skin." However, if that is your definition, then, again, a good deal of women in this thread are not "light-skin." But you seemed to be arguing that lighter-toned (brown, golden-brown) did not exist in Africa naturally, which is untrue.

Where is your proof then son?

I've posted countless links showing european influence on various parts of the world.

I'd like to see what you can come up with that backs up what you say.

[A7glow]

Fine, I seriously doubt you are a geneticist otherwise you would know what I'm about to post already. I don't have the books that I've read on the subject, so some Wiki articles will have to do. Here you go: (bolded or highlighted texts added by me)

On Geographic Variations regarding skin color

Approximately 10% of the variance in skin color occurs within regions, and ~90% occurs between regions.[70] Because skin color has been under strong selective pressure, similar skin colors can result from convergent adaptation rather than from genetic relatedness, populations with similar pigmentation may be genetically no more similar than other widely separated groups. Furthermore, in some parts of the world in which people from different regions have mixed extensively, the connection between skin color and ancestry has been substantially weakened.[71] In Brazil, for example, skin color is not closely associated with the percentage of recent African ancestors a person has, as estimated from an analysis of genetic variants differing in frequency among continent groups.[72]

More from the same article:

According to scientific studies, natural human skin color diversity within populations is highest in Sub-Saharan African populations,[2] with skin reflectance values ranging from 19 to 46 (med. 31) compared with European and East Asian populations which have skin reflectance values of 62 to 69 and 50 to 59 respectively.[3] The term "range" is loosely defined in this case, as African albinos have not been taken into consideration when calculating the "range".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...olor_Chart.JPG

Vitamin D consumption also affects skin color. The Inuits for example were pretty brown before European contact.

Furthermore, darker pigmentation as a genetic development can be seen among many groups near the equator. Southern Indians for example tend to be really black, whereas their northern counterparts tend to be much lighter. Not sure how you aren't getting this. There didn't need to be admixture from a foreign group to create variations in skin tone.

[Xercen]

Fine, I seriously doubt you are a geneticist otherwise you would know what I'm about to post already. I don't have the books that I've read on the subject, so some Wiki articles will have to do. Here you go: (bolded or highlighted texts added by me)

On Geographic Variations regarding skin color

Approximately 10% of the variance in skin color occurs within regions, and ~90% occurs between regions.[70] Because skin color has been under strong selective pressure, similar skin colors can result from convergent adaptation rather than from genetic relatedness, populations with similar pigmentation may be genetically no more similar than other widely separated groups. Furthermore, in some parts of the world in which people from different regions have mixed extensively, the connection between skin color and ancestry has been substantially weakened.[71] In Brazil, for example, skin color is not closely associated with the percentage of recent African ancestors a person has, as estimated from an analysis of genetic variants differing in frequency among continent groups.[72]

More from the same article:

According to scientific studies, natural human skin color diversity within populations is highest in Sub-Saharan African populations,[2] with skin reflectance values ranging from 19 to 46 (med. 31) compared with European and East Asian populations which have skin reflectance values of 62 to 69 and 50 to 59 respectively.[3] The term "range" is loosely defined in this case, as African albinos have not been taken into consideration when calculating the "range".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...olor_Chart.JPG

Vitamin D consumption also affects skin color. The Inuits for example were pretty brown before European contact.

Furthermore, darker pigmentation as a genetic development can be seen among many groups near the equator. Southern Indians for example tend to be really black, whereas their northern counterparts tend to be much lighter. Not sure how you aren't getting this. There didn't need to be admixture from a foreign group to create variations in skin tone.

So you have already personally insulted me twice yet you miss the point entirely.

Firstly, the point i made was that there has been a huge colonial influx of white genes into the african genepool. You seem to assume that the skin colour variation in africa seems to have been the same since thousands of years ago. But the real cause is racial mixing.

I believe this accounts for the fact that you have a huge variation of skin colour in africa. The cause of the skin colour variation is white genes interacting with black genes.


You quoted,

"Approximately 10% of the variance in skin color occurs within regions, and ~90% occurs between regions.[70] Because skin color has been under strong selective pressure, similar skin colors can result from convergent adaptation rather than from genetic relatedness, populations with similar pigmentation may be genetically no more similar than other widely separated groups."

Skin colour is under selective pressure because having darker skin means you are less likely to be sunburnt. Therefore, the selective pressure for skin colour in africa (very hot arid country) would tend TOWARDS people having dark skin rather than light skin. There is NO selective pressure towards lighter skin in a hot, arid country such as africa.

There is no selective pressure for having a lighter skin tone in africa apart from the fact that skin tone was achieved due to racial mixing. Having lighter skin in africa, which is a hot arid country is absolutely pointless in evolutionary terms. You also talk about convergent adaptation in africa as some sort of reason why there are light skinned black chicks in africa. Why would there be a convergence towards light skin in africa? what possible benefits do light skin have for africans apart from making it easier for them to be sunburnt?

this is the definition of convergent adaptation

"Evolutionary change in two or more unrelated organisms that results in the independent development of similar adaptations to similar environmental conditions."

Now, there is no selective pressure for having light skin in africa so why would there be convergent adaptation for light skin?

Oh btw, in the passage you quoted about convergent adaptation, it was actually referring to the convergent adaptation of light skin in white and east asian populations since those two populations have light skin but the genotypes are different. I don't even know why you even bolded it in the first place.





"In Brazil, for example, skin color is not closely associated with the percentage of recent African ancestors a person has, as estimated from an analysis of genetic variants differing in frequency among continent groups.[72]"

But is it closely associated with the number of white ancestors the person has? Also, brazil has had interracial mixing for hundreds of years since 1500s, which means their skin colour is generally very stable. I.e most of them are brown coloured. So having an extra black ancestor might not produce a drastic change in skin phenotype.





highest in Sub-Saharan African populations,[2] with skin reflectance values ranging from 19 to 46 (med. 31)

Yeah..you know the reason why there is a large variation?

Because of the europeans and racial mixing with black africans.


Also, i found out the articles you were quoting from and i found an interesting map of skin tone colour from the same article you quoted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Un..._color_map.svg

As you can see, in Africa, the dominant luschan skin tone is between 27 to 30. In other words, most african people have very dark brown to black skin. Which is kinda obvious when you think about it. It's because the overwhelming majority of africans (not including the white people in south africa) are dark brown black coloured and not light skinned. The ones that are light skinned are in the minority and they are light skinned because they have white ancestors.

Unless you want to personally insult me again and tell me that there is selective pressure for light skin in africa and the reasons why that may be the case, then i think there is nothing more to add but if you want to conjour up another pathetic excuse for an case then i'll be happy to oblige.

"According to scientific studies, natural human skin color diversity within populations is highest in Sub-Saharan African populations,[2] with skin reflectance values ranging from 19 to 46 (med. 31) compared with European and East Asian populations which have skin reflectance values of 62 to 69 and 50 to 59 respectively.[3] The term "range" is loosely defined in this case, as African albinos have not been taken into consideration when calculating the "range".

Also, it's funny how european and asian populations have a very small range of skin reflectance values of 62-69 and 50-59 respectively, yet for some special reason ONLY KNOWN TO GOD, black people have a range of 19-46. So somehow god made black people special that they come in a huge range of different colours and white and asian people only come in a very small range of colours.

Could it be that it's just purely natural or that the wide range of colours in a environment that has SELECTIVE pressure towards dark/black skin is due to racial mixing of white colonists with the black indiginous population?

[Fury]

[Walt Liquor]

Too much talky talky