The HBO Budget Crisis and What it Means

[Foreign Soil]

People thinking competition is bad have forgotten how boxing used to flourish with the old HBO/Showtime rivalry. What's diminished it now is the outlandish payouts on PBC where money is "free". Guys clearing a cool million dollars to fight bums every month is an unsustainable system. That's not a healthy rivalry, it's a good way to try and eliminate competition in this niche market. Maybe that's been PBC's priority all along, eliminate competition even if it means draining yourself dry in hopes of becoming the new UFC, which, they aren't doing so hot these days either so the whole "shaking up the sport" does nothing but weaken it in the long run. All of us who didn't jump on the "boxing is free on PBC" bandwagon saw it coming.

[Scipio2009]

I would miss boxing on HBO for sure, but if HBO boxing folds it strengthens the viability of PBC. HBO are the main competitor within boxing itself and if they're gone then PBC are firmly in the driving seat. Purses would plummet over the next couple of years. That's for sure.

I don't think you can make your point, that fight purses would plummet over the next couple of years, especially in the face of Showtime/CBS continuing to expand their boxing budget/coverage and the PBC effort injecting the money/opportunities into the sport for fighters that they have.

[bballchump11]

I hope PBC gets their foothold in firmly before HBO really goes under. We can't have both of them fail.

[Eff Pandas]

the budget has been cut to under $25 million from what i'm hearing with more cuts coming

Source? Although it isn't really a shocking development. HBO's budget has dropped $5M or so every year or two for the last 20 or so years.

Boxing does not need and organization like UFC IMO.

like the UFC, the NFL, the NBA, the MLB, the NHL, etc & so on lol.

The reality is the most successful sports have a centralized power structure that drives their sport & continually makes the sport better & more fan friendly. Boxing is every man for themselves & thats never gonna allow for maximizing the impact a sport can have. If you like or don't like PBC fair enough, but some centralized power structure is greatly needed in boxing to move the sport as a whole towards more fruitful pastures when they arise.

Boxing's mess still work around the world but in US it seems losing big time.

This is an interesting fact to me & I've often wondered what the US is doing wrong & other countries are doing right. I was thinking of that as recently as this weekend with the Frampton vs Quigg card that draws so many passionate fans for not just the main event, but for the event of the entire fight card to some degree. That never really happens in the US for whatever reason. The US has big main event fights like Floyd vs Manny or Canelo vs Cotto, but for the 5th fight on the card there is 12 fans in the first 20 rows.

If HBO's boxing broadcasts dwindles away further I'm sure another entity will emerge and attempt to replace it(excluding PBC).

Absolutely. Thats the good thing for cats like myself who wanna see some centralized power in boxing. The smaller & more niche boxing gets & the more starving en****** who get out of the sport the more likely some Mark Cuban, Richard Branson rich type guy will be able to reach in & control boxing with one or a handful of swift moves. I fully believe that will eventually happen cuz I feel there is far too much money in boxing for the man who makes the NFL of boxing.

[al-Xander]

Haymon killed the sport by overpaying his fighters for fighting cab drivers. Everyone wants the same money and fight cab drivers. It's become extremely expensive to make meaningful fights.

Showtime is down. HBO is next.

[Dr Rumack]

The core economic question in boxing is whether or not the sport continues to be broadcast on premium networks. That's much bigger than the viability of PBC in and of itself, which is really a secondary question.

If there is no more boxing on premium networks, then everything changes. A huge amount of money is removed from the sport for one. But secondly the purses commanded for individual events will drop enormously. The sort of paydays people tended to laugh at in the UFC will be very similar to what we'll start to see in boxing. Guarantees will be small and only when guys can turn over a lot of PPV buys will they see major money. As bojangles1987 suggested above, fighting 1-2 times a year will most likely no longer be an option for all but the top tier of stars.

But despite the speculation it doesn't seem like any of this is going to happen any time soon. It might, but lots of things might happen. There's a lot of uncertainty in the air right now.

[-PBP-]

Haymon killed the sport by overpaying his fighters for fighting cab drivers. Everyone wants the same money and fight cab drivers. It's become extremely expensive to make meaningful fights.

Showtime is down. HBO is next.

HBO's boxing budget has been declining long before Haymon

I knew you guys would come in this thread pointing fingers. The underlying issue is boxing's declining popularity as a whole in the US.

[Dr Rumack]

I don't think you can make your point, that fight purses would plummet over the next couple of years, especially in the face of Showtime/CBS continuing to expand their boxing budget/coverage and the PBC effort injecting the money/opportunities into the sport for fighters that they have.

PBC purses are not sustainable on free tv. That's why boxing moved to the premium networks in the first place. In the UK in the 80s/90s, mega fights could get 10-15 million viewers, 20-25% of the population. And it still made financial sense to go to Sky like Naz did because they could afford to pay much more.

The 5 figure purses you see on regular UFC cards would become much more commonplace if the premium networks got out of boxing. Only the big stars would see the big 7 figure guarantees on a regular basis.

[Scipio2009]

I think Arum could be a big asset to PBC because despite his shortcomings, you have to admit he's the best star builder in the sport right now. That's something Haymon has yet to be able to achieve.

I hope they can eventually build s working relationship.

If you're looking for the "best star builder in the sport", Arum's not your guy. You're likely actually looking for Bruce Trampler(Top Rank's matchmaker) and Carl Moretti(Top Rank's day-to-day operator, former #2 for Dino Duva and Lou DiBella).

Arum walks into any situation with far more baggage and burnt bridges than he's worth, to any partner at this point.

Haymon's already put together a pretty well-established cast of talent to undergird his effort, formally or informally: DiBella(former head of HBO Boxing, and a top promoter in his own right), Tom Brown(Goosen's longtime #2), Schaefer, Michel(top promoter in Montreal), Hearn(top promoter in the UK), and others make for a pretty star-studded cast of folks to work with, with everyone seeming to do a really good job of working together.

Arum would **** all of that up.

[-PBP-]

The core economic question in boxing is whether or not the sport continues to be broadcast on premium networks. That's much bigger than the viability of PBC in and of itself, which is really a secondary question.

If there is no more boxing on premium networks, then everything changes. A huge amount of money is removed from the sport for one. But secondly the purses commanded for individual events will drop enormously. The sort of paydays people tended to laugh at in the UFC will be very similar to what we'll start to see in boxing. Guarantees will be small and only when guys can turn over a lot of PPV buys will they see major money. As bojangles1987 suggested above, fighting 1-2 times a year will most likely no longer be an option for all but the top tier of stars.

But despite the speculation it doesn't seem like any of this is going to happen any time soon. It might, but lots of things might happen. There's a lot of uncertainty in the air right now.

I don't think HBO will go under. I just think they will adjust. You will see them build their brand around who they have and try to build PPVs. Kind of like WWE when Raw and Smackdown were used to promote the big PPV mega showdowns.

Sucks for us because we will have to shell out $60 for fights like Golovkin/Lemieux and Cotto/Chaves which would normally be free with a subscription. I just expect to see more Crawford/Lundy, GGG/Monroe, Ward/Barrera and Kovalev/Mohammedi type fights to try and build these guys into PPV attractions.

And expect the big fights to marinate too