List your best fighters of all-time in each division

[wmute]

Even though Robinson was at his absolute best as a Welter, I feel he was still so good as a Middleweight that he tops my list (and is the only fighter I rate in two weight classes).

Poet

Do you see Robinson as the best or the most accomplished MW or both?

[StarshipTrooper]

Do you see Robinson as the best or the most accomplished MW or both?

The best. Accomplishments are only one factor in how I rate fighters. Overall ability is the most important factor.

Poet

[GJC]

I couldn't argue too strongly against SRR @ MW, I went with Greb as I had SRR @ WW and also I do feel Greb does get a little overlooked at times considering his resume.
Now Arguello over Pep........................

[StarshipTrooper]

I couldn't argue too strongly against SRR @ MW, I went with Greb as I had SRR @ WW and also I do feel Greb does get a little overlooked at times considering his resume.
Now Arguello over Pep........................

Hey now! I've been giving Pep his props in some other threads recently!

Poet

[1SILVA]

The best. Accomplishments are only one factor in how I rate fighters. Overall ability is the most important factor.

Poet

Recently saw Robinson's performance against Maxim. A virtuoso performance, despite the ending. The Robinson that totally outclassed maxim that night would have beaten any 160 pound fighter that ever lived.

[wmute]

The best. Accomplishments are only one factor in how I rate fighters. Overall ability is the most important factor.

Poet

I see. I still disagree, but I see where you coming from.

[wmute]

I couldn't argue too strongly against SRR @ MW, I went with Greb as I had SRR @ WW and also I do feel Greb does get a little overlooked at times considering his resume.
Now Arguello over Pep........................

Arguello over Pep can also make sense if you think about the "best" rather than the "greatest". It's different approaches.

[wmute]

Recently saw Robinson's performance against Maxim. A virtuoso performance, despite the ending. The Robinson that totally outclassed maxim that night would have beaten any 160 pound fighter that ever lived.

But most great MW would be faster, slicker, and with better stamina than Maxim. Not saying Robinson could not beat them, but I don't see what the Maxim fight tells us about a matchup with Hagler or Greb for example.

[hhascup]

Against contenders, here are Pep and Arguello's records:

Willie Pep was 27-8
Arguello was 15-4

This is what IBRO came up with in 2005. I am also a charter member of IBRO BUT I did not vote on this as I was too busy with several other things at the time.

Updated November 2005

1. Willie Pep
2. Sandy Saddler
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Abe Attell
5. Johnny Dundee
6. Alexis Arguello
7. Kid Chocolate
8. Johnny Kilbane
9. Jim Driscoll
10. Terry McGovern
11. Salvador Sanchez
12. George Dixon
13. Vincente Saldivar
14. Tony Canzoneri
15. Eder Jofre
16. Young Griffo
17. Azumah Nelson
18. Owen Moran
19. Freddie Miller
20. Eusebio Pedroza

Just missing the cut: Erik Morales, Battling Battalino, Chalky Wright, Louis Kid Kaplan, Baby Arizmendi, Benny Bass, Marco Antonio Berrera, Young Corbett II and Davey Moore.

[hhascup]

But most great MW would be faster, slicker, and with better stamina than Maxim. Not saying Robinson could not beat them, but I don't see what the Maxim fight tells us about a matchup with Hagler or Greb for example.

I rate Greb over Robinson as a Middleweight. Robinson was past his prime when he became Middleweight Champion. His loses to Turpin, Fullmer (twice), Basilio, Ralph Tiger Jones, twice to Pender shows that. You could say that he was old at the time BUT that is was when he was the Middleweight Champion. Just look at his record. He lost only 1 bout in his first 131 bouts, then went 45-18-4 the rest of the way.

In Middleweight Title bouts Robinson went 8-6-1

Here's what IBRO came up with:

Middleweight

Updated June 2005

1. Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Stanley Ketchel
4. Mickey Walker
5. Carlos Monzon
6. Marvin Hagler
7. Marcel Cerdan
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Jake LaMotta
10. Charley Burley
11. Tony Zale
12. Tiger Flowers
13. Bernard Hopkins
14. Tommy Ryan
15. Roy Jones Jr.
16. Dick Tiger
17. Mike Gibbons
18. Freddie Steele
19. Kid McCoy
20. Gene Fullmer

Just missing the cut: Sugar Ray Leonard, Les Darcy, Sam Langford, Holman Williams, Billy Papke, Emile Griffith, Frank Klaus, Joey Giardello, Nonpareil Jack Dempsey and Ezzard Charles.