Most underrated fighters in fantasy fights...

[Humean]

Barney Ross wouldn't be able to outbox far less impressive boxers than Mayweather. Barney Ross had about the most 'modern' style of all the top guys of the 30s so in many ways it should be easier to see how unimpressive he was by more recent standards. There have been very many (Ross retired around 80 years ago!) who have eclipsed him.

[billeau2]

Sometimes I feel like Joe Louis is criminally underrated in fantasy fights.

Maybe just my perception but it seems like every **** who ever laced em up has the 'right style' to give Louis problems. If youre a brawler then you 'just need to look at the Godoy fight to see Louis sucks vs Brawlers', if you are an outboxer you 'just need to watch the Conn fight to see he sucks vs boxers'. Plus he's chinny and gets KO'd by every gust of wind that travels past him.

So much focus on his flaws, people forget to think about what he might do to the other guy.

Good point as usual. First off, people are under a general misconception that Louis has slow feet. Early tape of Louis would dispel this myth. In reality he became much more efficient in his methods. The proof is in the pudding. I was as ignorant as most, when he beat Conn he was behind but, he had plenty of time to finish...I thought it had been a last round ko.

Louis also did not mind taking a knee so to speak. Yet no one except Schmelling put Louis really in KO danger during his prime. Punchers develop geometry...German fencers were the same way... angles are always more efficient than straight lines and circles generally work for bigger movements and for movements done with different parts of the body moving in sequence:

So, I learn to move my shoulders in a semi circle while i come in straight...Like Tyson or Dempsey. Or, instead of chasing a guy or backtracking, I learn to cut him off with an angle and set a trap. Watch Ward do this to Dawson for example, Or Louis in any of his fights against a boxer. Louis was not a particularly bright guy intellectually but Blackburn realized that Louis had a very intelligent body so to speak. Louis could apply technique, he was coachable...Evander Holyfield has that same intelligence...its how he won against Bowe in the fight he won. It makes a great fighter all the greater.

[billeau2]

Lmao...

Keep proving my point that floyd is underrated in fantasy fights..

Guy has only been p4p undefeated for 2 decades and dominated a dozen first ballot hall of famers..

Your problem with me can be that I said floyd wouldn't lose... You gave no evidence to support your claim except that "one time" floyd struggled to a win with castillo when he injured his shoulder...

I asked you to name guys that were slick boxers that chavez and Ross beat yet you can't name any, yet think they would beat floyd...

I literally got laughed at for saying floyd is underrated in fantasy fights, and you laugh at me even though you cant support any of your claims...

Still waiting on you to name opponents that chavez and Ross beat that were even remotely in the same league as floyd...

You do realize that floyd dominated more hall of famers than anyone in modern times

Genero
Corrales
Castillo
Hatton
Cotto
Oscar
Marquez
Manny
Canelo


All I'm asking for is you to name the "slick" boxers chavez and Ross beat... Shouldn't be so hard...

Especially since my boxing knowledge is "basic as ****" in your view.. So please drop some knowledge on me and support your claim that chavez and Ross would beat floyd...
Just name the similar fighters to floyd that they beat... That's all I'm asking..

Support your positions

You are being intolerable! make a list of all the fellow ATG's Floyd has beat in their prime....wait let me do it for you


There!


Floyd is not underrated, he never tested himself in the manner of a lot of the guys who have experience balls being taken to the wall... And when Floyd did get pressure he showed weakness. it would tend to lead one to believe that Floyd would be lacking in a head to head match...At least Roy Jones, quite the cherry picker himself at times, beat some great fighters prime for prime.

And the posters answered your inquiry well imo...Whitaker showed he could handle pressure, basically making Chavez look like an amateur. Floyd, by comparison, made an amateur (Madiana) look like a pro! Not to mention what should have been his first loss.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

You are being intolerable! make a list of all the fellow ATG's Floyd has beat in their prime....wait let me do it for you


There!


Floyd is not underrated, he never tested himself in the manner of a lot of the guys who have experience balls being taken to the wall... And when Floyd did get pressure he showed weakness. it would tend to lead one to believe that Floyd would be lacking in a head to head match...At least Roy Jones, quite the cherry picker himself at times, beat some great fighters prime for prime.

And the posters answered your inquiry well imo...Whitaker showed he could handle pressure, basically making Chavez look like an amateur. Floyd, by comparison, made an amateur (Madiana) look like a pro! Not to mention what should have been his first loss.

That's crazy.... So you are gonna judge floyd soley on how many prime ATGS fighters they beat in their prime? This isn't a resume contest.. That's probably why floyd gets underrated in these fantasy fights

[Bundana]

This thread makes me wonder, if I have completely misunderstood the h2h concept!

I thought it was about trying to assess, how a fantasy match-up between two boxers would play out... and not about resumé, who has been "tested" the most, or who has fought the most ATGs/HOFers.

There are dozens of oldtimers with 100-200 fight careers, with maybe 8, 9, 10 (or even more!) HOFers on their records... who no one will ever dream of calling ATGs or HOF-worthy. Simply because they weren't that good! So while they have certainly been tested in a way, where today's fighters just can't compare... that doesn't necessarily mean, they were BETTER than their modern counterparts.

[billeau2]

That's crazy.... So you are gonna judge floyd soley on how many prime ATGS fighters they beat in their prime? This isn't a resume contest.. That's probably why floyd gets underrated in these fantasy fights

Its kind of conspicious when he has not fought one ATG...it goes beyond correlation and into the rhealm of deliberation. Specifically it adds credability to the notion Floyd is a cherry picker. its not about resume its about a standard where one looks to be the best and does so by defeating the next best.

Floyd was an incredible fighter, especially at the lower weight ranges he fought at, but when looking at the very best, there are guys who left an exclamation point.

[billeau2]

This thread makes me wonder, if I have completely misunderstood the h2h concept!

I thought it was about trying to assess, how a fantasy match-up between two boxers would play out... and not about resumé, who has been "tested" the most, or who has fought the most ATGs/HOFers.

There are dozens of oldtimers with 100-200 fight careers, with maybe 8, 9, 10 (or even more!) HOFers on their records... who no one will ever dream of calling ATGs or HOF-worthy. Simply because they weren't that good! So while they have certainly been tested in a way, where today's fighters just can't compare... that doesn't necessarily mean, they were BETTER than their modern counterparts.

Well it is a diversion but when we talk "head to head" and someone thinks Floyd is not represented, it has to be called out. Why? because as you even state: a lot of guys fought the very best they could.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Its kind of conspicious when he has not fought one ATG...it goes beyond correlation and into the rhealm of deliberation. Specifically it adds credability to the notion Floyd is a cherry picker. its not about resume its about a standard where one looks to be the best and does so by defeating the next best.

Floyd was an incredible fighter, especially at the lower weight ranges he fought at, but when looking at the very best, there are guys who left an exclamation point.

Floyd is underrated in fantasy fights

All I heard for years is that he would lose to

Prime margarito
Prime Paul Williams
Roberto Duran
Prime manny
Prime oscar
Prime Tito
Prime hearns
Aaron Pryor
Pernell
Chavez
Ross
Benny Leonard
Ray Leonard
Prime Mosley
Vernon Forrest
Winky
Azumah nelson
Etc
Etc
Etc

[Humean]

This thread makes me wonder, if I have completely misunderstood the h2h concept!

I thought it was about trying to assess, how a fantasy match-up between two boxers would play out... and not about resumé, who has been "tested" the most, or who has fought the most ATGs/HOFers.

There are dozens of oldtimers with 100-200 fight careers, with maybe 8, 9, 10 (or even more!) HOFers on their records... who no one will ever dream of calling ATGs or HOF-worthy. Simply because they weren't that good! So while they have certainly been tested in a way, where today's fighters just can't compare... that doesn't necessarily mean, they were BETTER than their modern counterparts.

Yeah these things do seem to turn into a game of 'Top Trumps'.

I also think head-to-head fantasy fights are best when comparing two fighters who fought maybe only a generation or two away from each other rather than over far larger periods of time.

[billeau2]

Floyd is underrated in fantasy fights

All I heard for years is that he would lose to

Prime margarito
Prime Paul Williams
Roberto Duran
Prime manny
Prime oscar
Prime Tito
Prime hearns
Aaron Pryor
Pernell
Chavez
Ross
Benny Leonard
Ray Leonard
Prime Mosley
Vernon Forrest
Winky
Azumah nelson
Etc
Etc
Etc

And cause you heard it that somehow makes it illogical... Ok Sugar. You usually make more sense than what one could loosely call these "lines of reason." I get that you feel strongly about this and are temporarily abandoning the house of reason. So be it...Floyd is underated going head to head even though he didn't.