Vitali's best career win is against a guy who lost to Chad Dawson.

[The_Golden_Goy]

In my opinion, The Klitschko's biggest problem is that theyre not one person, with the combined abilities and characteristics. you'd then be talking about an ATG top 15 HW in terms of skill, possibly not so much in terms of record because all the same fighters would still be around in the era

Adamek is a solid win, and he'd compete well against most HW not named Klitschko or Haye, but Vitali or Wlad are physically too much for him. In this situation in another weight class Adamek could go away and get a title of someone else and just be content at not being the best in the division. But with the Klitschko's holding every damn belt besides the terrible WBF, it makes his HW career from here pretty pointless. None of the other guys who would be beatable for him are going to make him any money or enhance his legacy much further, so in that respect I think Adamek has hit a glass ceiling in regards to his stint at HW

Just my opinion, thoughts?

[Steak]

Is it safe to say Peter was never really the same after Wlad landed the hook in the 12th of the first fight in terms of aggression? Maskaev would argue against that but Maskaev got knocked out by everyone with a pulse not named Rahman (the ULTIMATE styles make fights, everyone has a Norton case there).

well, unless you count Julius Long or some other sacrificial lamb, I think thats a pretty fair statement.

Maskaev had such a weird career, even from his pro debut. I liked that guy though.

[crold1]

well, unless you count Julius Long or some other sacrificial lamb, I think thats a pretty fair statement.

Maskaev had such a weird career, even from his pro debut. I liked that guy though.

I always liked dude too. You knew you'd see a war before the KO. Best fight we didn't see in this era: Maskaev-Lamon Brewster?

[Steak]

I always liked dude too. You knew you'd see a war before the KO. Best fight we didn't see in this era: Maskaev-Lamon Brewster?

actually I think Maskaev would have been mowed down early in that fight ala Golota, his chin was just too much of a liability, unless Brewster had some eye problems like the Liakhovich fight...but then again Brewster struggled against Krasniqi and Meehan...hm.

both were too inconsistant. There would have been fireworks while it lasted though.

both Maskaev and Brewster were cool guys, and entertaining fighters.

[nomadman]

Adamek would show up in shape, which Toney really didn't do in either fight while Peter came in lighter for the rematch . And, frankly, lighter and better conditioned than he was for Vit. Adamek moves more than Toney, by a lot, and that would be a huge factor. I think Adamek could outbox Peter pretty easy.

Hide would have a punchers chance but really just wasn't that good. Solis is no question mark for me. Struggled with Austin and a fat piece of junk in most fights. Gomez was too far past it. Prime Gomez? At Cruiser? Yeah, that dude beats Adamek.

Adamek could've outboxed Peter, but I doubt it would have been pretty easily. It would've come down to gameplans more than conditioning I think (though if Peter was grossly out of shape that would have obviously played a factor). Basically, if Peter just head hunted and went looking for one big overhand right, then Adamek would've won. If Peter had doubled and tripled the jab to the head and body and worked to trap Adamek against the ropes, then unloaded with combinations then I could've seen him getting the stoppage or winning a wide UD. Hard to say if the Peter that fought Vit was still capable of doing that though.

Adamek would probably be the slight favourite versus Hide, but it's the sort of tense knife-edge affair that could turn at any moment. And whilst Adamek would probably have no problem knocking down Hide, he'd have to make damn sure he kept him there. Hide was a wild man who'd just keep swinging until he dropped or was dropped, as the Bowe fight showed. Even a woozy, ready to go Hide was still capable of seriously hurting you with some crazy out of leftfield shot, and Adamek has had several exchanges where he's been hurt when going after someone. Would be a hell of a fight actually, now that I think more about it.

[crold1]

Adamek could've outboxed Peter, but I doubt it would have been pretty easily. It would've come down to gameplans more than conditioning I think (though if Peter was grossly out of shape that would have obviously played a factor). Basically, if Peter just head hunted and went looking for one big overhand right, then Adamek would've won. If Peter had doubled and tripled the jab to the head and body and worked to trap Adamek against the ropes, then unloaded with combinations then I could've seen him getting the stoppage or winning a wide UD. Hard to say if the Peter that fought Vit was still capable of doing that though.

Adamek would probably be the slight favourite versus Hide, but it's the sort of tense knife-edge affair that could turn at any moment. And whilst Adamek would probably have no problem knocking down Hide, he'd have to make damn sure he kept him there. Hide was a wild man who'd just keep swinging until he dropped or was dropped, as the Bowe fight showed. Even a woozy, ready to go Hide was still capable of seriously hurting you with some crazy out of leftfield shot, and Adamek has had several exchanges where he's been hurt when going after someone. Would be a hell of a fight actually, now that I think more about it.

I agree. Hide was a nut. Bowe I believe said he hurt him more than anyone on a single shot.

actually I think Maskaev would have been mowed down early in that fight ala Golota, his chin was just too much of a liability, unless Brewster had some eye problems like the Liakhovich fight...but then again Brewster struggled against Krasniqi and Meehan...hm.

both were too inconsistant. There would have been fireworks while it lasted though.

both Maskaev and Brewster were cool guys, and entertaining fighters.

Krasniqi...the knock em out twice fight. To be fair to corrupt judging/officiating overseas, one can only imagine how they felt at the birthplace of the marketplace rivalry: Axel Schultz-George Foreman. Schultz...uncrowned lineal champion. Name should be where Briggs is even if he'd have lost it right away.

Anyhoooooo...yeah, Brewster. Dude was basically the Heavyweight Gatti of the 00's. Win or lose, from Ettienne-Liakhovich, one was almost always getting a show.

[nomadman]

Maybe; I think Adamek could jab and go left/right before Peter got off. If Peter caught him with a big shot (BIG IF) it's tough. The Peter who fought Vit, and rarely tried a jab? Yeah, that's easy work for Adamek IMO. Agree on Peter's six pack but he was an odd case, clearly sluggish even with it as his weight went up. Peter in the 240s ALWAYS looked much better than when he got close to or surpassed 250.

Adamek's pretty quick on his feet when going forward or backward, but he's never impressed me much with his lateral movement and seems to lose his balance a lot when he does so. He's also not the hardest fighter to get against the ropes, and becomes very vulnerable when there. Like I said, it's hard to guage how well Peter would be able to do based on the Vitali fight, since he wasn't fighting a remotely similar opponent, but I can see him walking through Adamek's best shots and doing some damage with his digging right to the body and his short left hook especially and gradually breaking Adamek down for a late rounds stoppage or UD. Adamek could also very conceivably box rings around him, but the mid 2000s Peter was IMO a superior fighter to the Arreola that lost to Adamek.

[nomadman]

I personally think that had more to do with Toney being shot than Peter being better. I know that sounds unfair, but Toney looked like **** in that fight, and has looked like **** since. lets not forget Peter was bounced around like basketball by McCline right after, although to be fair McCline and Adamek are nothing alike.

I dont know, the Peter that showed up against Vitali to me was in worse shape than the second Toney fight, and just had no initiative...somewhat like the Chambers fight, but to a lesser extent. I personally would favor Adamek, in a close fight, over that Peter.

Prime Peter on the other hand, the one from the first Wladimir fight, probably would have beaten Adamek in my mind.

Toney didn't perform as well in the rematch as in the first fight, but Peter was doing some different things in there which the commentators picked up on, constantly stuffing his jab in Toney's face and body and being very smart with his power shots, not loading up too much and varying the targets, holding Toney against the ropes with his outstretched left arm and pounding him in the body with his right. Not pretty at all, but much more effective that what he was doing in the first fight.

I don't know. Toney could have got shot overnight, but without any interim fights to go on, I think it's fairer to say this is more of a case of Peter making the necessary changes and simply being better than him that night. As for his subsequent performances, it's true he didn't look nearly the same, but then you could easily make the case that it was his back to back fights with Peter that caused that. At the very least, they took a hell of a lot out of him.

[nomadman]

Is it safe to say Peter was never really the same after Wlad landed the hook in the 12th of the first fight in terms of aggression? Maskaev would argue against that but Maskaev got knocked out by everyone with a pulse not named Rahman (the ULTIMATE styles make fights, everyone has a Norton case there).

I think if any fight really took the wind out of Peter's sails it was the McCline one, where he was knocked down three times and really manhandled like a little boy for large stretches of the early going. Peter was still plenty aggressive enough in the Toney fights which took place after the first Wlad fight.

McCline, by the way, I've always though was an underrated puncher. That Peter was first dropped by him shouldn't really be held against him that much.