The Footwork of Napoles and Louis

[IronDanHamza]

i would think at 135 Floyd wins but at 147 its a different story.

I agree with you there.

[IronDanHamza]

top 10 welterweight ? I presume you mean Napoles at least I hope so... Floyd isn't top 10 material in this division, too many great fighters there who fought a lot at welterweight, we have Armstrong Ray Leonard, Hearns, Robinson, Tommy Ryan, Barney Ross, Jimmy McLarnin, Mike Gibbons, Jack Britton, Ted Kid Lewis, Emile Griffith, Mickey Walker, Kid Gavilan, Fritzie Zivic, Carmen Basilio, Tony DeMarco, Young Corbet III, Joe Walcott, Wilfred Benitez, Jackie Fields and Mysterious Billy Smith and then there are many many other very good fighters like Don Curry and Pernell Whitaker and Lloyd Honeyghan................... oh man, can you believe how much depth this division has had.

No I mean Napoles.

Floyd probably somewhere in the Top 20.

[IronDanHamza]

Sometimes good footwork is confused with good foot speed. Louis was fundamentally excellent.

Absolutely agree.

Louis isn't fast on his feet but the technical aspect of his footwork is very good to watch.

[McGoorty]

No I mean Napoles.

Floyd probably somewhere in the Top 20.

I would have Floyd just outside the 20, maybe about 23 to 25, I am just not convinced he could handle many of those fighters I named, some I feel destroy him others about even and some I am sure he can beat them but I stipulate a minimum of 15 rounds and a compromise of 10 to 12 oz gloves and no referees favouring him by quickly separating the fighters quickly, many of the greats did a lot of infighting as you know, these days EVERYTHING is in Floyds favour and that is hurting the sport big time, making boxing boring as hell. your pick may be better than mine, he could be around 18 -20.

[ironalex]

This is another analytical video from LeeWyllie1, this time it is about footwork, he uses two masters of good footwork, the great Joe Louis and the fabulous Jose Napoles. In this thread I would like to discuss this aspect of boxing and martial arts in general. I would also like some input from you about other fighters footwork, who you think was great in this department and who you think was rubbish in the footwork dept. In the video he used the silly footwork of Prince Naseem Hamed ( a boxer I always thought was a bit of a joke, no doubt he could be very dangerous though ) as an example of what is not good footwork.... anyway, lets have at it.

I'm sorry but I disagree with everyone's opinion on Joe Louis' footwork here. He is one of my favourite fighters and is a great fighter no doubt, also probably had the most text book technique (he threw punches so prim and proper with full technique, and in an essence in that case his footwork was very good when he threw) but he was very slow on his feet, and he often found complications with movers. Note billy conn and jersey Joe Walcott fights!

Fighters with the best footwork? Jersey joe Walcott, willie pep, ali and, rigondeux

[Humean]

You could watch the video and see why Wyllie thought he was.

I did. He says "none were more efficient with their feet than Joe Louis." A very dubious claim.

Sometimes good footwork is confused with good foot speed. Louis was fundamentally excellent.

There certainly is a distinction to be made between footwork and footspeed however at a certain point being able to move competently is going to be hindered by a lack of footspeed. That is the case with Louis.

Well if we are really really precise we could say Louis had incredibly efficient footwork. Not all fighters with exceptional footwork valued efficiency and in fact, not all fighters with efficient footwork had great footwork. Odlanier Solis has really efficient footwork but is a plodder because of his weight.

Conversly not all heavyweights with great footwork were necessarily efficient. Johnson might be a good example of a heavyweight who was willing to work a little bit more in order to set certain traps and have an opportunity to attack which made him, at times, inefficient but very good.

Louis was a plodder moving forward and he didn't really cut the run off well either. Sure he didn't cross his feet and was competent with his footwork but in a laboured way and there wasn't much in the way of lateral movement.

[McGoorty]

I did. He says "none were more efficient with their feet than Joe Louis." A very dubious claim.



There certainly is a distinction to be made between footwork and footspeed however at a certain point being able to move competently is going to be hindered by a lack of footspeed. That is the case with Louis.



Louis was a plodder moving forward and he didn't really cut the run off well either. Sure he didn't cross his feet and was competent with his footwork but in a laboured way and there wasn't much in the way of lateral movement.

Then he must be the greatest plodder of all time, mate he was a heavyweight and he absolutely destroyed everybody for a decade, he was a gentleman outside the ring but he was a savage inside of it, he almost literally knocked heads off. People go on and on about Tyson's savagery and the way he knocked guys out but we had seen it all before in Joe Louis only Louis was a better fighter. Tyson before he lost badly to Douglas had not fought anyone of note except a very old Holmes and a small guy called Spinks and after the Douglas fight he lost to every big name he fought against, he just beat bums up, Louis did his fair share of that of course but he did have some impressive scalps so however you rate his footwork you have to admit it worked very well for him, yep, his hands were a lot faster than his feet and his timing was amazing.

[Ray Corso]

When a man displayed power in his punches he was taught to step and glide up!
This meant his feet were close if not on the matt ready to deliver a power punch(s).
Theres nothing knew about the way the fighters moved then who could punch, it was rare to have the ability that Sugar Ray had. Being able to move as a boxer and then punch with power at any moment was one of the reasons he's considered the best ever.

Louis's moves where direct and purposefull and allowed him to be a very dangerous opponent. When Charles or Conn or Walcott are mentioned as giving Louis traoubles its as if their considered ordinary!
Those men are considered great fighters and when greats fight each other **** happens!!!
Ray

[ironalex]

When a man displayed power in his punches he was taught to step and glide up!
This meant his feet were close if not on the matt ready to deliver a power punch(s).
Theres nothing knew about the way the fighters moved then who could punch, it was rare to have the ability that Sugar Ray had. Being able to move as a boxer and then punch with power at any moment was one of the reasons he's considered the best ever.

Louis's moves where direct and purposefull and allowed him to be a very dangerous opponent. When Charles or Conn or Walcott are mentioned as giving Louis traoubles its as if their considered ordinary!
Those men are considered great fighters and when greats fight each other **** happens!!!
Ray

Im not doubting that, Louis was techincally text book. But when people are mentioning footwork, I mentioned fighters like Walcott Charles and conn because (albeit they are great) but their footwork was the main problems for Louis and when you are talking about Louis having the best footwork of all time and you can name guys who caused him trouble because they displayed better footwork, then he quite simply doesn't have the best footwork of all time.

[billeau2]

I did. He says "none were more efficient with their feet than Joe Louis." A very dubious claim.



There certainly is a distinction to be made between footwork and footspeed however at a certain point being able to move competently is going to be hindered by a lack of footspeed. That is the case with Louis.



Louis was a plodder moving forward and he didn't really cut the run off well either. Sure he didn't cross his feet and was competent with his footwork but in a laboured way and there wasn't much in the way of lateral movement.

I do think its true that Louis didn't cut the ring off, then again, I am not sure if he needed to cut the ring off. Cutting the ring off and cornering an opponent creates a chance to land punches but actually there are some bad habits that can develop, like trying to chase a puncher, being very obvious about an attack, telegraphing intentions, etc. Louis was more patient, more explosive and more deliberate and could catch you at anytime.

Also, agreed on the lateral movement... when a guy moves excessively with lateral movement they sacrifice stability of the punching base by disaligning the upper body. Some guys with very quick feet can realign so fast it doesn't matter so much....Ali for example. Some guys used these movements when they were on the back leg so they had plenty of time to react, for example, james Toney, Mayweather and Jack Johnson. lateral movement skills changed when guys squared up more and gloves got bigger partially because the risk factor went down with getting tagged with a hard punch.