Connection between deaths in the ring and fathers in the corner?

[Batfrett]

In the commentary on the tragic 2005 Leavander Johnson/Jesus Chavez fight, which claimed the life of Leavander Johnson, one of the announcers said that there are two things that seem to be "constant" in recent fights where a boxer was seriously - sometimes permanently - injured:

1. The fighter who is dealing out the damage has punching power, but not enough to knock his opponent out quickly, which allows for far more cumulative damage to take place than a speedy KO would.

2. The fighter taking the punishment "has his father in the corner as his trainer, constantly sending him back out to take more punishment."

The announcer actually said, in the 10th round, that he hoped that wouldn't be the case for Leavander Johnson, and the fight was stopped early in the 11th round; however, Leavander Johnson died 5 days later from his injuries.

A little research on my part turned up an earlier article from the LA Times, which listed other fighters who were killed in their bouts and had their fathers in their corners:

Johnny Owens (1980)
Kiko Bejines (1983)
Rico Velazquez (1988)
Jimmy Garcia (1995)
Fernie Morales (1991)1

More recently, in 2009, Francisco "Paco" Rodriguez was killed in the ring, with his father in the corner.

Has there ever been a serious analysis into the possible correlation between permanent injury/deaths in the ring, and having one's father in the corner? Do we know if there is actually a statistical correlation between these two factors?

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1 Fortunately, Morales actually survived, but suffered a blood clot in his brain, had to have emergency brain surgery to remove it, and never fought again. Sadly, all the others on the list died from their injuries.

[Eff Pandas]

Interesting topic. I definitely believe

1. The fighter who is dealing out the damage has punching power, but not enough to knock his opponent out quickly, which allows for far more cumulative damage to take place than a speedy KO would.

is true more often than not & that just getting KTFO is less likely to lead to serious life changing/threatening damage.

Also I believe Prichard Colon's dad was in his corner when he had his injury.

[SterlingStained]

because the fathers are living vicariously through their sons and they are more prone to try to get the W than say a trainer who doenst want a death on his resume.

the son is defeated, but the father, who takes no punishment, doesnt want to lose, hence their rope is much longer than trainers with no relation to their fighter.

[sbeatz]

In the commentary on the tragic 2005 Leavander Johnson/Jesus Chavez fight, which claimed the life of Leavander Johnson, one of the announcers said that there are two things that seem to be "constant" in recent fights where a boxer was seriously - sometimes permanently - injured:

1. The fighter who is dealing out the damage has punching power, but not enough to knock his opponent out quickly, which allows for far more cumulative damage to take place than a speedy KO would.
2. The fighter taking the punishment "has his father in the corner as his trainer, constantly sending him back out to take more punishment."

The announcer actually said, in the 10th round, that he hoped that wouldn't be the case for Leavander Johnson, and the fight was stopped early in the 11th round; however, Leavander Johnson died 5 days later from his injuries.

A little research on my part turned up an earlier article from the LA Times, which listed other fighters who were killed in their bouts and had their fathers in their corners:

Johnny Owens (1980)
Kiko Bejines (1983)
Rico Velazquez (1988)
Jimmy Garcia (1995)
Fernie Morales (1991)1

More recently, in 2009, Francisco "Paco" Rodriguez was killed in the ring, with his father in the corner.

Has there ever been a serious analysis into the possible correlation between permanent injury/deaths in the ring, and having one's father in the corner? Do we know if there is actually a statistical correlation between these two factors?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Fortunately, Morales actually survived, but suffered a blood clot in his brain, had to have emergency brain surgery to remove it, and never fought again. Sadly, all the others on the list died from their injuries.

Interesting Topic, I don't believe there's been analysis in depth about that particular correlation. Generally it is the first point that leads to deaths, the toughness and determination of receiving fighter, and fighting to make weight before fighting a prize fight. An inexperienced trainer or one that has bad judgement during the match definitely contributes, and lots of times the trainer is the fighters father. Only few can take their fighter to the next level (TV Fights) not many can be like Floyd Sr, Eduardo Garcia, Angel Garcia, Ruben Guerrero, Shane sr., Kenny Porter, ect.

the Big G is shown leading up to Mikey Garcia vs Lopez helping Mikey who puked after failing to make weight. Sending a fighter into battle like that is a recipe for death/damage but Mikey's mind & ability overcame that and whooped Juanma. That is an exception though. Other fighters might need to withdraw from the fight.

But here's one more to add to the list: Hamzah Aljahmi

Last IG Post before fight: https://www.instagram.com/p/_cydfKGq...hamzahaljahmi1

Article about his dad being close and inspiring him to box, accompanying him to his pro debut (dunno if he worked the corner or not)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/28/sp...h-aljahmi.html

[Batfrett]

Interesting Topic, I don't believe there's been analysis in depth about that particular correlation.

I stumbled across a couple of articles (I can't link them here because I haven't made 15 posts yet) that mention studies, but neither provides any references about them:

"JEJU, South Korea -- The World Boxing Council wants to banish once and for all fathers from working their sons' corners during fights after a study showed it could prove fatal.

Speaking at the WBC's annual convention, council president Jose Sulaiman said the organization already had a rule banning fathers from their sons' corners but that it was being flouted.

The WBC must strictly enforce this law to prevent errors in judgment that could lead to tragedy in the ring, Sulaiman added.

Dr. Paul Wallace, chairman of the WBC's medical advisory board, said that a study in California backed up the WBC's stance.

"The most common factor out of all the fatalities that had happened, was having fathers in the corner," he said of the study. "Now, that's not something that's a medical issue, but it's something that's clearly an association.""

And:

"“The California Athletic Commission conducted a preliminary inquiry into California ring injuries since 1980.

It was discovered that four of the seven most serious head injuries reviewed–including all three California ring-related deaths–involved fighters whose fathers worked their corners.

Richard DeCuir, the commission’s executive director, admits the examination was not scientific–“The numbers have not been scrubbed,” he said–yet the findings struck him as alarmingly disproportionate, given the best estimates that only 5%-7% of professional fighters are trained by relatives.”"

[sbeatz]

I stumbled across a couple of articles (I can't link them here because I haven't made 15 posts yet) that mention studies, but neither provides any references about them:

"JEJU, South Korea -- The World Boxing Council wants to banish once and for all fathers from working their sons' corners during fights after a study showed it could prove fatal.

Speaking at the WBC's annual convention, council president Jose Sulaiman said the organization already had a rule banning fathers from their sons' corners but that it was being flouted.

The WBC must strictly enforce this law to prevent errors in judgment that could lead to tragedy in the ring, Sulaiman added.

Dr. Paul Wallace, chairman of the WBC's medical advisory board, said that a study in California backed up the WBC's stance.

"The most common factor out of all the fatalities that had happened, was having fathers in the corner," he said of the study. "Now, that's not something that's a medical issue, but it's something that's clearly an association.""

And:

"“The California Athletic Commission conducted a preliminary inquiry into California ring injuries since 1980.

It was discovered that four of the seven most serious head injuries reviewed–including all three California ring-related deaths–involved fighters whose fathers worked their corners.

Richard DeCuir, the commission’s executive director, admits the examination was not scientific–“The numbers have not been scrubbed,” he said–yet the findings struck him as alarmingly disproportionate, given the best estimates that only 5%-7% of professional fighters are trained by relatives.”"

Damnn good find, that is alarming. I dont know if str8 up banning fathers, but whatever dey gotta do to make the sport safer. Exceptions must be made for those like Floyd Sr. doe. But maybe its best that others are banned. I remember Gabriel rosado vs GGG and one of the cornermen (I don't know whos the head trainer, cutman, ect
) tells his dad who's in the corner also that dey gotta do something, "your son is gonna die in there". I'm not saying Gabe sr. Is a bad trainer from that because I don't know his training history, but that moment right there was a good time to stop the fight. Rosado is a warrior who needs people to stop the fight for him (same w/ Blackwell but its hard to tell when they march forward w/ a poker face and hide the pain)

[Eff Pandas]

And:

"“The California Athletic Commission conducted a preliminary inquiry into California ring injuries since 1980.

It was discovered that four of the seven most serious head injuries reviewed–including all three California ring-related deaths–involved fighters whose fathers worked their corners.

Richard DeCuir, the commission’s executive director, admits the examination was not scientific–“The numbers have not been scrubbed,” he said–yet the findings struck him as alarmingly disproportionate, given the best estimates that only 5%-7% of professional fighters are trained by relatives.”"

They studied going back to 1980, but they only mention 4 of 7 injuries having fathers in the corner. Is there statistics covering the period from 1980 to the present or just some broader range then 7 incidents. Thats a tiny sample size.

[Batfrett]

They studied going back to 1980, but they only mention 4 of 7 injuries having fathers in the corner. Is there statistics covering the period from 1980 to the present or just some broader range then 7 incidents. Thats a tiny sample size.

The sample size is definitely too small to tell us anything, but it is still surprising that 4/7 serious injuries and 3/3 deaths occurred with a father in the corner. I'm not sure when the study was done - the article was written in 1995, but the study might have been in 1983, for all we know. That's why I want more info and more reliable/useful sources.

[Batfrett]

Here's a list I put together last night of fighters who died or were seriously hurt with their fathers in their corners since 1980:

Died with father in corner:

Jimmy Garcia (1995)

Johnny Owens (1980)

Kiko Bejines (1983)

Rico Velazquez (1988)

Leavander Johnson (2005)

Francisco “Paco” Rodriguez (2009)

Braydon Smith (2015)

Bobby Tomasello (2000)

David “El Terry” Acevedo (2015; father in corner refused to stop fight)



Seriously injured with father in corner:

Gabriel Rosado (2013 - in a fight where he was pummeled so badly that the trainer literally BEGGED Rosado’s father to let him stop the fight)

Fernie Morales (1991 – brain damaged, but survived, and never fought again)

Jason Rushton (2009 - brain damaged, but survived)

Prichard Colon (2015 – brain damaged, but may survive)

Billy Ray Collins Jr. (1984; father in corner, discovered opponent Luis Resto's gloves had had the padding removed)

[Eff Pandas]

Didn't Billy Ray Collins kill himself a year or two later? He didn't die from his ring injury.