Burglar stabbed to death - Father and son arrested on murder charge

[Nuurzhaelan]

You've just said you would shoot someone in the head for breaking into your car. There's a level of proportionality here. If somebody is attempting to kill you or another party then you should be able to use proportionate force to prevent the attack and this includes lethal force. But shooting people in the head for stealing from your car is ridiculous and will get you charged with murder.

Do burglars have rights? Of course they do. They have the right to a fair trial, to legal representation, and to the presumption of innocence, just like everyone else including people who have shot a guy in the head for trying to steal the change out of someone's ashtray.

These discussions all go the same way.

I'd shoot a guy in the head if he was trying to steal my car.
Well then you'd be justifiably jailed for murder.
So I'm supposed to LET A BURGLAR RAPE AND KILL MY FAMILY!?
Well... no. There's a teeny tiny difference in the proportion of the threat.

Self defense is about defending yourself. The clue is right there in the name. It's not about punishing offenders or exacting retribution, and the point that it becomes either of those things is the point where you are no longer the defender and you become the aggressor.

It's one of the reasons that police will very seldom accept a claim of self defense if you are in a street fight.

Normally, I agree with just about everything you write. Here, I do not quite agree. Proportionality is easy to argue from the serenity of your desk, but in the moment with several unknowns concerning the perpetrators, and with emotions and adrenaline flowing, those cognitive processes are not going to be as sound or efficient (arguably someone who is in that position a lot might be able to think through it, but that's another argument).

If the victims were sleeping, then likely the light in the house was very limited or at least dimmed. Attackers don't generally declare their intentions nor their preparedness (weapons and determination), so it is difficult in low light and spur of the moment for victims to mete out precisely the measured response that the law prescribes.

To be certain, it is over the top to chase after burglars who break and enter your home, but leave at the first sign of resistance only to be gunned down mercilessly as they make their flight. There were evidently FOUR burglars and the victims had 2 men and a woman. At best the victims are surprised and down a 1 person advantage in a confrontation, and that's if the perpetrators are unarmed.

I feel that the law should be very lenient with people who defend their homes. Personal property outside the home is arguably quite different. But the home is a sanctuary. From what I read the one burglar was stabbed once. If he was stabbed in the thigh and the femoral artery were cut, I don't think 'murder' is the charge that should be pursued. If he were stabbed repeatedly in the chest though...

[Sage84]

Lets face it, if the lad was at home with a cup of tea and a cream cake he wouldnt have gotten stabbed. The whole blame is with him. You leave your rights at the door when you break into someone's house.

If I ever found an intruder I would quite happily crack him with the cricket bat I keep in the bedroom first and ask questions later - I doubt I would reach for a knife though.

Oh, this was a couple of streets away from where my Mum lives. Its a quiet area usually, I grew up around there and it isnt the sort of place you would expect to have to many break ins.

[MARKBNLV]

When i was 15 i was staying the night at a buddies house,about 3 in the morning i woke up to take a piss as i was coming out of the bathroom i feltcold steel against my neck and i heard lay down now,anyway i did what he said i laid down then he turned on the light is was my friends drunk ass dad thinking i was a intruder.

[Nuurzhaelan]

When i was 15 i was staying the night at a buddies house,about 3 in the morning i woke up to take a piss as i was coming out of the bathroom i feltcold steel against my neck and i heard lay down now,anyway i did what he said i laid down then he turned on the light is was my friends drunk ass dad thinking i was a intruder.

Close call, eh?

[AKATheMack]

If one country invaded another with the intentions of taking their possessions, war would be declared and I doubt anything less than death would be considered for reasonable force.

[MARKBNLV]

Close call, eh?

Hell yea from then on if i went to the fridge or the pisser i would say craig im pissing etc.

[Run]

Had the burglar not threatened the man and his household he wouldn't be dead. A little common snese would go a long way. Of course you have the right to protect your own property, thats a right I refuse to give up.

Good point, I was going to state........who really lost here?

The damn guy was stabbed to death. That's a bad, bad end.



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[Lorily]

There's an obvious difference between shooting an intruder leaving the residence (and therefore the threat is already leaving the building at the time) and defending yourself/family against ANY possible threat. But if the intruder, or in this case MULTIPLE intruders, are still anywhere in the house, the threat is still there. I don't care if your an 80 year old defensless lady or a 300 pd muscle bound young man, if someone comes in to your house, with an obvious knowledge that someone could be home (masks are a clear indicator of that) then any person has the right to defend themselves at ALL COST!

I have one of those huge Rambo knives a friend gave me years ago, and I keep it by my bed at all times. If a stranger is in my home and he/she is close enough to me for me to actually stab them, then they deserve every bit of what they get. And I reserve the right to continue stabbing them until they are no longer a threat!

The fact the police in this case actually arrested and charged THE FAMILY with a malicious crime they neither wished for or asked for, is a crime in itself. They're victimizing the family twice.

Anything short of someone actually inviting these Mofo's over, telling them to wear ski masks and then ambushing them as the front door closes, with a knife to the gut or a shot to the head for the purpose of creating human prey-is logical and JUSTIFYABLE SELF DEFENSE. For the goverment of any State or Country to think otherwise is just utterly asinine. The fact that they're putting the lowlife intruders life above the innocent familys life is flat out corrupt injustice.

Squealpiggy - obviously there's different scenarios for every incidence, but in this case the police are clearly stating that the homeowners were the criminals for defending themselves from the threat of bodily harm. If the intruder was close enough to actually be stabbed, he was still a threat to that family. Period.

[Run]

I have one of those huge Rambo knives a friend gave me years ago, and I keep it by my bed at all times. If a stranger is in my home and he/she is close enough to me for me to actually stab them, then they deserve every bit of what they get. And I reserve the right to continue stabbing them until they are no longer a threat!

I in fact, have the replica from Rambo III. The one he used to butcher all of the Russians and I can state that thing is ugly.

Like lol if you stab someone with that, it's over. That thing is not intended to disable anyone like a homeland security knife.........considering it's 15 damn inches long and about 4 inches thick with a blood groove the size of a pinky finger.



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[-Jay-]

hate these politically correct *****es

my brother got done a few years back cos his dog bit a punk breaking into his car in his backyard... he also got done for beating up a kid that tried to steal an old ladys handbag after he caught him.

Sounds like those cvnts got what they deserved, I hate thieving bastards.