James Toney; Most overrated fighter of the 90's?

[Anthony342]

I prefer the nickname Calslappy.

[Trenchant]

Toney is not overrated. He was a warrior! Why pick on Toney? He dug deep so many times, win or lose, he deserves respect. Why do people nitpick and get all **** about **** these days? He was a great fighter, period.

[IronDanHamza]

But in fairness he did win and got the decision. It was changed because of drugs or something right?

Precisely.

Does it matter he won?

It was rightfully changed too no contest. That's not a W.

[WalkerSmithJnr]

This was a very good thread and should be what this forum is about.
I don't agree with the thread starter but he makes a good argument and makes me think about my position.
If we don't want to hear other people's opinions there isn't much point to this site

[IronDanHamza]

This was a very good thread and should be what this forum is about.
I don't agree with the thread starter but he makes a good argument and makes me think about my position.
If we don't want to hear other people's opinions there isn't much point to this site

Exactly!!

That's fair enough you don't agree, I expect many to not agree.

It's merely a discussion. This is a discussion forum after all.

Thanks for the comment I appreciate it. I feel there's good points posted by myself, and also from others. There's points either side.

[RobotBoy]

No Disrespect

But Toney was clearly one of the greatest fighters of the past forty years. There's a good reason why Roy didn't give him a rematch - Toney lost that fight in the steam room and Roy understood that things wouldn't be so easy in a second dance. And Roy gave everybody a rematch. Listen to what Roy says about Toney and how much credit he gives to his ability and skill.
It's off-base to dismiss Merqui Sosa. Dig into his career a bit and hear what other fighters said about him. Despite his lack of polish, Sosa was basically indestructible and hit like a bull. (The stoppage with Roy was a travesty).
Check out the wins against near-prime Holyfield. The evisceration of Iran Barkley. The trio with McCallum, a seriously underrated champion who is only underrated because the big names ducked him. The Jirov masterpiece. Nunn was a stellar talent and while Toney was behind on the cards before the KO, he also had won three or more rounds in a row and was breaking Nunn down. That's another thing about Toney - he took on all comers. There are Toney's skills - he was a throwback with defensive and counterpunching skills straight out of the 1940s. And unlike Floyd, he stayed in the pocket. His chin - one flash knockdown in his entire career! (The one against Roy was a push). He had an all-time beard and was never seriously in trouble across 93 fights. Despite fighting for years fifty, sixty, seventy pounds above his ideal weight. Fighter of the year twice, the second time a decade after the first. (One of the real injustices Toney faced was the two losses to Montell Griffin. Toney was clearly being punished for his break with his manager. I like Montell but he got undeserved gifts on those nights).
People say that Toney was lazy and didn't train hard - that's bull****. He was a gym rat who made it a point of pride to be the first guy to the gym and the last to leave. Toney's problem was food and all his poor performances at lighter weights were due to massive weight loss in the week before the fight. The eating disorder was a real shame because if he could have controlled himself at the buffet, he'd be considered a top-five middle- super-middleweight of all time. However, it also shows just how remarkable a fighter he was. Few are the former middleweights who would leave the ring on their feet after facing a bazooka-armed giant like Sam Peter (I thought Toney won the first fight by several rounds), or Rahman, or the very tough John Ruiz. It was another way in which Toney was a throwback - he would have been successful in any era, even the days before weight classes.
Now if you want to talk about overrated, Floyd Mayweather is Exhibit A. In the 40s and 50s, he would have been a journeyman. At best.

[W1LL]

Can't really argue with your analysis Dan, I agree with you. I see Toney as more of a Cult favourite, moreso than being overrated though. He had a very good defence it is true, but it also lead to many of his fights being close decisions. He must hold a record for the most Split and Majority decisions.

[PRINCEKOOL]

NO.

Look at the fighters who he has fought, and he was competitive with all of them 'Just look at the company which he kept within the ring'.

Talk about experience, James Toney has experienced greatness 'Weather that be through his own performances or the fighters he was competing against'

[QueensburyRules]

But Toney was clearly one of the greatest fighters of the past forty years. There's a good reason why Roy didn't give him a rematch - Toney lost that fight in the steam room and Roy understood that things wouldn't be so easy in a second dance. And Roy gave everybody a rematch. Listen to what Roy says about Toney and how much credit he gives to his ability and skill.
It's off-base to dismiss Merqui Sosa. Dig into his career a bit and hear what other fighters said about him. Despite his lack of polish, Sosa was basically indestructible and hit like a bull. (The stoppage with Roy was a travesty).
Check out the wins against near-prime Holyfield. The evisceration of Iran Barkley. The trio with McCallum, a seriously underrated champion who is only underrated because the big names ducked him. The Jirov masterpiece. Nunn was a stellar talent and while Toney was behind on the cards before the KO, he also had won three or more rounds in a row and was breaking Nunn down. That's another thing about Toney - he took on all comers. There are Toney's skills - he was a throwback with defensive and counterpunching skills straight out of the 1940s. And unlike Floyd, he stayed in the pocket. His chin - one flash knockdown in his entire career! (The one against Roy was a push). He had an all-time beard and was never seriously in trouble across 93 fights. Despite fighting for years fifty, sixty, seventy pounds above his ideal weight. Fighter of the year twice, the second time a decade after the first. (One of the real injustices Toney faced was the two losses to Montell Griffin. Toney was clearly being punished for his break with his manager. I like Montell but he got undeserved gifts on those nights).
People say that Toney was lazy and didn't train hard - that's bull****. He was a gym rat who made it a point of pride to be the first guy to the gym and the last to leave. Toney's problem was food and all his poor performances at lighter weights were due to massive weight loss in the week before the fight. The eating disorder was a real shame because if he could have controlled himself at the buffet, he'd be considered a top-five middle- super-middleweight of all time. However, it also shows just how remarkable a fighter he was. Few are the former middleweights who would leave the ring on their feet after facing a bazooka-armed giant like Sam Peter (I thought Toney won the first fight by several rounds), or Rahman, or the very tough John Ruiz. It was another way in which Toney was a throwback - he would have been successful in any era, even the days before weight classes.
Now if you want to talk about overrated, Floyd Mayweather is Exhibit A. In the 40s and 50s, he would have been a journeyman. At best.

- -Lotta blah-blah mixed in with shot, unlicensed "prime" Field...priceless...

Two Ton best moments came at Burger King and Kentucky Fried.

[IronDanHamza]

But Toney was clearly one of the greatest fighters of the past forty years. There's a good reason why Roy didn't give him a rematch - Toney lost that fight in the steam room and Roy understood that things wouldn't be so easy in a second dance. And Roy gave everybody a rematch. Listen to what Roy says about Toney and how much credit he gives to his ability and skill.
It's off-base to dismiss Merqui Sosa. Dig into his career a bit and hear what other fighters said about him. Despite his lack of polish, Sosa was basically indestructible and hit like a bull. (The stoppage with Roy was a travesty).
Check out the wins against near-prime Holyfield. The evisceration of Iran Barkley. The trio with McCallum, a seriously underrated champion who is only underrated because the big names ducked him. The Jirov masterpiece. Nunn was a stellar talent and while Toney was behind on the cards before the KO, he also had won three or more rounds in a row and was breaking Nunn down. That's another thing about Toney - he took on all comers. There are Toney's skills - he was a throwback with defensive and counterpunching skills straight out of the 1940s. And unlike Floyd, he stayed in the pocket. His chin - one flash knockdown in his entire career! (The one against Roy was a push). He had an all-time beard and was never seriously in trouble across 93 fights. Despite fighting for years fifty, sixty, seventy pounds above his ideal weight. Fighter of the year twice, the second time a decade after the first. (One of the real injustices Toney faced was the two losses to Montell Griffin. Toney was clearly being punished for his break with his manager. I like Montell but he got undeserved gifts on those nights).
People say that Toney was lazy and didn't train hard - that's bull****. He was a gym rat who made it a point of pride to be the first guy to the gym and the last to leave. Toney's problem was food and all his poor performances at lighter weights were due to massive weight loss in the week before the fight. The eating disorder was a real shame because if he could have controlled himself at the buffet, he'd be considered a top-five middle- super-middleweight of all time. However, it also shows just how remarkable a fighter he was. Few are the former middleweights who would leave the ring on their feet after facing a bazooka-armed giant like Sam Peter (I thought Toney won the first fight by several rounds), or Rahman, or the very tough John Ruiz. It was another way in which Toney was a throwback - he would have been successful in any era, even the days before weight classes.
Now if you want to talk about overrated, Floyd Mayweather is Exhibit A. In the 40s and 50s, he would have been a journeyman. At best.

A lot of nonsense for the most part.

Near prime Holyfield? That has to be a joke? Holyfield was shot to pieces.

Roy Jones didn't rematch Toney because he totally dominated him to such an extent that it looked like Toney had never even had an amatuer fight.

You claim the Griffin fights were injustices (they weren't) and leave out the obvious injustice in Toney's career which was the Dave Tiberi robbery.

If anything, Reggie Johnson deserved the decision over Toney more so than Toney did over Griffin in either fight.