Horus Presents: The Irony of FAIRNESS and How do you NEGOTIATE it ..?

[Horus]

Damn, Horus dropping some good ****.

*******s will avoid this thread.

I hope they do not avoid this thread, it is a good lesson on how to Negotiate.

[Walt Liquor]

The Irony of Fairness and How do you Negotiate it ..?

There is no right or wrong, only perception. I know what you might be thinking if there is no right and wrong why do people go to jail. Well People go to jail because they violate laws. In Afghanistan it is written in the law that a Man can rape his wife if she denies him sex on four occasions. Conversely, in America that is illegal!

Who is right and who is wrong??? I am pretty sure both sides will have an argument however what cannot be disputed is that no matter what we think on about that issue, it is a statement of fact that both sides have laws in place to support their way of living. As a result, Critical thinking should lead you to ask yourself who determines right and wrong, and fair and unfair. These are not universal concepts, in all trueness there are no objective, universal moral principles. Each land has its own laws, values, and justice system. Therefore, as a human race, we live in the matrix of contradictions. As a whole we contradict ourselves daily, but we clam rationality as our guide to living. Who’s rationality? You see where this is going.

The irony of this is that we all believe in some kind of objective moral principles like fairness and justice. So why across the world is fairness and justice interpreted in so many different ways.

So this brings me to a topic I want to discuss,

How do you Negotiate fairness?

If two individuals from two different places of the world came together to decide on a contract,
What principles should they used? Because deciding on principles for negotiation is really determining whose values and belief system gets checked!

If they try to meet in the middle, where is the middle? Is middle left or middle right?? If you notice the patterned the true test of these deciding factors comes when one of those two individuals decides to cave, appease, satisfy, or pacify first. Then the question is how far is that person willing to cave, appease, satisfy, and pacify, and what made that person give up on his values and principles in the first place?

Now we have an interesting situation, because not only as one person compromise their position, but they have just ceded control to the other individual. They let their opposition frame the conversation, and therefore frame the reality, more important the perception of reality.

The one who controls perception controls reality.

So say now the individual with the control decides to tell the other individual that the only fair way for us to determine and finalized the contract is for both of them to undergo a test to solidify that both of them believe in integrity, fairness, and justice to each other and the contract.

Now a problem naturally arises from the other individual side, what kind of test? and why is this test the deciding factor of integrity, fairness, and justice to each other and the contract.

BUT HERE IS THE PROBLEM, the time to ask those questions are over, because that individual agreed to the other individual principles by caving, appeasing, satisfying, and pacifying to the other individuals framework of the conversation,

So I ask the question how do you Negotiate fairness? Simple. YOU DON’T !!
Because once you do, what you think is fair based on your values, and principles will soon be determine be someone else as soon as you Negotiate it.

First of all, who negotiates fairness? What are you talking about?
When one agrees to abide by certain governing bodies, fairness is decided.

If you want to learn anything about negotiation, just read a book.

[arraamis]

I agree, and I addresss this in my argument.
That If they try to meet in the middle, where is the middle? Is middle left or middle right?? If you notice the patterned the true test of these deciding factors comes when one of those two individuals decides to cave, appease, satisfy, or pacify first. Then the question is how far is that person willing to cave, appease, satisfy, and pacify, and what made that person give up on his values and principles in the first place?

This is why accountability is paramount ..... without it, representatives can sell out the people depending on them.

And that is the biggest flaw inherent, when negotiating towards a mutually agreed upon term, between two sides. There has to be some degree of compromise in order to come to agreement ... which side the scale tips against is determined by the representative.

[Danny Gunz]

When money is being negotiated most morals, and values get thrown out of the window.

Greed is a powerful thing.

[Walt Liquor]

There is no middle to any negotiation. There are two endpoints, each of which is the best possible outcome for that particular side. The end of the negotiation falls somewhere in between those two endpoints.


Fairness is not negotiated, A POSITION is negotiated. Fairness is subjective and a more appropriate word you are probably looking for is guidelines.

[arraamis]

There is no middle to any negotiation. There are two endpoints, each of which is the best possible outcome for that particular side. The end of the negotiation falls somewhere in between those two endpoints.


Fairness is not negotiated, A POSITION is negotiated. Fairness is subjective and a more appropriate word you are probably looking for is guidelines.

Here is a scenario where a middle ground can be found and the relevance of FAIRNESS established.

There is a piece of land that two sides are negotiating to split. Now, the FAIR thing to do is split the land mass in half 50\50, thereby giving each side an equal percentage of the land.

During the process of negotiating the land split, each side has to be represented by a singular individual. If by some underhanded deal, side A's representative accepted a monetary gift from side B, to accept 40% of the land mass in the negotiations .... then the negotiations are compromised and FAIRNESS cannot be achieved for side A.

Side B gained an UNFAIR advantage in the negotiations by introducing payola to side A's representative.

[Walt Liquor]

Here is a scenario where a middle ground can be found and the relevance of FAIRNESS established.

There is a piece of land that two sides are negotiating to split. Now, the FAIR thing to do is split the land mass in half 50\50, thereby giving each side an equal percentage of the land.

During the process of negotiating the land split, each side has to be represented by a singular individual. If by some underhanded deal, side A's representative accepted a monetary gift from side B, to accept 40% of the land mass in the negotiations .... then the negotiations are compromised and FAIRNESS cannot be achieved for side A.

Side B gained an UNFAIR advantage in the negotiations by introducing payola to side A's representative.

why is payola unfair?

what type of investment does either side have in said land? why should each side have a right to 50% of the land? Was it court ordered?

There is no fairness. In that negotiation, the best case scenario is 100% of the land for either side. Negotiations start there.

If their was such a thing as fairness, there would have been no negotiation over the 50% and they would have just agreed to the terms.

Fairness in behavior during the negotiation is different than negotiating fairness itself.

You should always behave honestly and be fair in negotiations, but you should never assume that your opponent is doing so. if this is not adhered to the negotiation draws out and becomes contentious.

[Mushroom]

Here is a scenario where a middle ground can be found and the relevance of FAIRNESS established.

There is a piece of land that two sides are negotiating to split. Now, the FAIR thing to do is split the land mass in half 50\50, thereby giving each side an equal percentage of the land.

During the process of negotiating the land split, each side has to be represented by a singular individual. If by some underhanded deal, side A's representative accepted a monetary gift from side B, to accept 40% of the land mass in the negotiations .... then the negotiations are compromised and FAIRNESS cannot be achieved for side A.

Side B gained an UNFAIR advantage in the negotiations by introducing payola to side A's representative.

That scenario is unrealistic though isn't it and wouldn't be relevant in the complexity of real life......

[Walt Liquor]

15 Rules of Negotiation
Negotiation is a process that can be learned.
By following the 15 rules outlined here--and practicing, practicing, practicing--you can perfect your skills at negotiating deals in which everyone wins.

1. Remember, everything is negotiable. Don’t narrow a negotiation down to just one issue. Develop as many issues or negotiable deal points as you can and then juggle in additional deal points if you and the other party lock onto one issue.


2. Crystallize your vision of the outcome. The counterpart who can visualize the end result will most likely be the one who guides the negotiation.


3. Prepare in advance. Information is power. Obtain as much information as possible beforehand to make sure you understand the value of what you are negotiating. Remember, very few negotiations begin when the counterparts arrive at the table.


4. Ask questions. Clarify information you do not understand. Determine both the implicit and explicit needs of your counterpart.


5. Listen. When you do a good job listening, you not only gain new ideas for creating win/win outcomes but also make your counterpart feel cared for and valued. This also allows you to find out what the other party wants. If you assume that his or her wants and needs are the same as yours, you will have the attitude that only one of you can “win” the negotiation.


6. Set a goal for each deal point. Define your minimum level of acceptance for each goal. If you aren’t clear on your goals, you will end up reacting to the propositions of your counterpart.


7. Aim your aspirations high. Your aspirations will likely be the single most important factor in determining the outcome of the negotiation. You can aim high just as easily as you can aim low.


8. Develop options and strategies. Successful people are those who have the greatest number of viable alternatives. Similarly, successful negotiators are those who have the most strategies they can use to turn their options into reality.


9. Think like a dolphin. The dolphin is the only mammal who can swim in a sea of sharks or in a sea of carp. Dolphins are able to adapt their strategies and behaviors to their counterparts. Remember, even when negotiating with a shark, you have an option--you can walk away!


10. Be honest and fair. In life, what goes around comes around. The goal in creating win/win outcomes is to have both counterparts feel that their needs and goals have been met, so that they will be willing to come back to the table and negotiate again. An atmosphere of trust reduces the time required to create win/win outcomes.


11. Never accept the first offer. Often, the other party will make an offer that he or she thinks you will refuse just to see how firm you are on key issues. Chances are, if you don’t have to fight a little for what you want, you won’t get the best deal.


12. Deal from strength if you can. If that’s not possible, at least create the appearance of strength. If the other party thinks you have no reason to compromise in your demands, he or she is less likely to ask you to.


13. Find out what the other party wants. Concede slowly, and call a concession a concession. Giving in too easily tells the other party that you will probably be open to accepting even more concessions.


14. Be cooperative and friendly. Avoid being abrasive or combative, which often breaks down negotiations.


15. Use the power of competition. Someone who thinks it’s necessary to compete for your business may be willing to give away more than he or she originally intended. Sometimes just the threat of competition is enough to encourage concessions.


In my personal experience, the highlighted ones are the most important.

[Walt Liquor]

Horus always disappears when I come in his threads.