Rocky Marciano is not a top ten all time heavyweight and I'll tell you why

[therealpugilist]

JJ has lost to guys his size or bigger and was used to fightihg with 180 pounders not remotly as skilled .If you take away the dirty boxing which was legal then hes even less effective .JJ was no giant either he was 190 /200 pounds in his prime so Marciano like 160 pnd Ketchel could not only drop JJ but certainly knock him out . I cant see JJ competition as impressive , i would even take 38 year old Louis as JJ's best opponent that Marciano fought and say Louis would beat anyone JJ fought as well.

In his prime he went years without even losing.

He was no giant but he was at least 3 inches taller with like 6" of reach on Marciano

obviously you dont know much about Jack Johnson. He beat the avoided black contenders of his day like Sam McVey, Kid Norfolk, Joe Jeannette, and Sam Langford.

These guys were top ten heavies a decade with no title shot. Also beat all the white hopes they could muster. You probably never researched any of them either

Most people agree that Johnson carried Ketchell but you notice as soon as Ketchel wacked him, he got his grill split and teeth knocked out seconds later.

Johnson had speed, movement and strength that would befuddle the Rock. Yes he beat Charles and the tricky Walcott but ended up just as beat up as they were and his face was a mess.


All Marciano had was a punchers chance and anyone who actually researches the sport knows that Johnson fought tougher competition than Marciano.

[therealpugilist]

He didn't hold a part of a title like most pretenders, he held the honor of being "The one and only"

so did Leon Spinks.....your point?

[therealpugilist]

How about we talk about to this day Marciano seem obvious? Why is that? Do you really believe Moore and Charles couldn't've just moved? Of course they could. Anyone could, hell even barely mobile Wlad could. It's why didn't they? Because they saw what you see. Maybe dig into why it worked and why it's not been done since Marciano.

How about raw power? The ability to break bones on command? Do you think as people get larger their bones get stronger? Marciano put out more footpounds than anyone else ever recorded. He could break bones, period and open ended. It's like saying you believe there are men big enough to just take a bullet from a 9. You can think it, but yer ****ed to death stupid to.

How about the win-loss ratio of this "weak" era? I know the double digits of the L bracket hurt y'alls vag to see, but if you work out w-l ratios it's one of the finest eras of boxing.

How about how often the era fought or what advancements in the game came of it? I mean, it was enough to inspire Ali to take Walcott and LaStarza's techniques and claim they're his to beat the likes of Foreman etc. That's Walcott's shuffle and LzStarza's rope-a-dope....but ya know weak era.

How about we talk about how you guys act like you know **** all about a 1950s resume? This is why y'all reckon the 50s is weak. What the **** do you know about Jackie Burke? **** all? How the **** do you judge Harry Kid Mathews? By looking at the record and knowing you don't recognize the name? All great boxers have lots and lots of articles written about them do they? Nope, go learn on some Harry and some Jackie.

Right now you can't even explain to me what makes any of Marciano's opponents bad. Walcott was older, sure, does that make him a bad opponent or just older? Let me know that way I can tell everyone old who does something physical their age makes them **** at it regardless of their feats. What makes Harry Mathews not one of the best names on any resume period? How about ****ell? They lost? To who? How many times did Harry fight a guy with over a 100 wins on him? How many times did a name lose to another name? 5 losses to the same damn person is different from 5 to 5 people. These thing don't make someone good, or bad. They're adjectives, modifiers. If you believe Walcott would have been sharper younger show me with video. While you go try to prove that you're gonna find you're just wrong. Far more video for you to work with too.



So yeah, whatever bro, to a guy who has never heard of Jackie Burke your list should look the way it does. You're one of millions who loves to talk about the 1950s but doesn't bother to learn anymore than what can be found in any given single article on the subject. You couldn't spot a great resume of the past if I ****ing laid the out for you. Why do you support only Dempsey and Tunney of the 20s? Why is JJ the only HW of the 10s you like? Because that's all you know. You can't explain to me what made Dempsey. You don't know who the guys people were looking at are, nor do you recognize the decent resumes the make up what becomes a fantastic resume. It doesn't even make sense to pick a single from an era. If he's the only thing great about the era guess what? Weak ****ing era init ya dumb ****? Marciano, Moore, Walcott, Mathews, Charles, LaStarza, Layne, and ****ell. good supports great, and you recognize most those names. Who the **** is Jack Dempsey's Harry Mathews? Who is Jack Johnson's Jackie Burke? **** if you know right? You know about Tunney, Willard, Jeffries, and Langford, the easy ****. What made them worth a **** in the first place you don't know. So you've a ****ty list any casual could have shat out as a result.



Spending more hours with surface knowledge than youre average casual doesn't make you less casual.


The fact that I can't say Don ****ell is ****ed up. You ****ing ****s have put hurt feelings over history. **** you for that, you stupid silly *****es.

1) Archie Moore was blitzed out by a novice for the vacant title. Floyd Patterson. He got him out of there way earlier than the Rock and also Moore went on to defend his 175 title. Moore was a great fighter, just not a great heavyweight. There is a difference. He and Charles turned pro as middleweights and Walcott a light heavyweight.

2) Jack Dempsey drew the color line. He deserves a mention but eliminating an entire race from title contention is held against him. Same goes for guys like John L Sullivan.

3) Once again Tunney was a great fighter, not a great Heavyweight and lost to a middleweight at 175...Greb

4) Rocky's best opponents were past prime and the contenders he beat were decent. they wouldnt be able to compete in the 60s

5)He lost to a smaller fighter as a novice, Joe Choynski. Choynski was a great fighter in his era and gave Johnson tutelage of the finer points of the game. Most people think Johnson carried Ketchell. Whether he did or he didnt , I dont know but he did blitz him and knock his teeth out seconds later


6) leave that nostalgia at home....idk how many bones he broke, he cant compete with guys like liston, foreman, frazier or holmes.

7) Marciano was a great fighter, but not an all time great HEAVYWEIGHT. TOO small and TOO crude,

8)Harry Kid Matthews was a good fight from middle to heavy but I doubt he'd be top ten in the 60s, 70,s 80s or today. he was good for his time.

9) How can you trash mu knowledge of the game but forget to mention Johnson beat Langforde, McVey, and Jeannete who could not get title shots so they fougth each other many times. They were all top heavyweights 10 years. Also Johnson beat all the best whites of the era.

10) get out of your emotions. its unbecoming

[SUBZER0ED]

Why crap on the guy's career, which took place decades before you were born? Have a little respect for the man!

[therealpugilist]

Why crap on the guy's career, which took place decades before you were born? Have a little respect for the man!

I dont do nostalgia.

Its fighters that were active since Ive been alive and they get underrated while a guy like Marciano gets overrated.

Great fighter for his era just not top ten all time at heavy

too many emo boxing fans nowadays

dude was 5'10" and 185....do you think he could compete with Holyfield, Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Klitschko Brothers, Holmes, Ali? I doubt it. Bowe has a pretty thin resume, didnt expect him to make the hall so soon. Talent wise he is up there but not resume wise. Same goes for Marciano who was talented but struggled with past prime greats and dominated decent to good contenders.

No disrespect to the man, he just isnt a top ten ATG heavy IMO

[Humean]

His skills were the lowest of all the great post war heavyweights but he certainly has to be considered a great heavyweight, whether that means top 10 i'm not sure. He proved categorically that he was the best heavyweight in the world for the almost three and a half years that he was the champion. What is interesting about Marciano is that his trainer Charley Goldman took a guy with so many obvious weaknesses and lack of talent and got him fighting in a style that maximized his strengths (power, strength, chin, toughness, stamina, will and determination) and minimized his weaknesses (reach, footwork, hand-speed, reflexes, coordination, accuracy, technique, timing) to such an extent that he became an undefeated heavyweight champion.

[SUBZER0ED]

I dont do nostalgia.

Its fighters that were active since Ive been alive and they get underrated while a guy like Marciano gets overrated.

Great fighter for his era just not top ten all time at heavy

too many emo boxing fans nowadays

dude was 5'10" and 185....do you think he could compete with Holyfield, Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Klitschko Brothers, Holmes, Ali? I doubt it. Bowe has a pretty thin resume, didnt expect him to make the hall so soon. Talent wise he is up there but not resume wise. Same goes for Marciano who was talented but struggled with past prime greats and dominated decent to good contenders.
No disrespect to the man, he just isnt a top ten ATG heavy IMO

Triangle theories are irrelevant. Marciano did well in his time, against his contemporaries. Experts acknowledge that due to his late start in the sport, he wasn't as polished as other greats from his era. But what he lacked in skill, he made up for with a relentless attack style, crazy stamina & an iron chin.

[therealpugilist]

Triangle theories are irrelevant. Marciano did well in his time, against his contemporaries. Experts acknowledge that due to his late start in the sport, he wasn't as polished as other greats from his era. But what he lacked in skill, he made up for with a relentless attack style, crazy stamina & an iron chin.

I made it clear. He was a great fighter and he did well for HIS time....ALL time he would get murdered and his resume is thin too.

Just my 2 cents.

I gave him credit he just isnt an all time great heavyweight to me...all time means he could compete in any era and be elite....i doubt he wouldve been elite in the 60s, 70s, or even the 80s, he gets raped vs the 90s heavies and even todays guys like wilder make easy work of him

imo he did well for himself in his era but i dont think he would have faired as well in deeper eras

[therealpugilist]

His skills were the lowest of all the great post war heavyweights but he certainly has to be considered a great heavyweight, whether that means top 10 i'm not sure. He proved categorically that he was the best heavyweight in the world for the almost three and a half years that he was the champion. What is interesting about Marciano is that his trainer Charley Goldman took a guy with so many obvious weaknesses and lack of talent and got him fighting in a style that maximized his strengths (power, strength, chin, toughness, stamina, will and determination) and minimized his weaknesses (reach, footwork, hand-speed, reflexes, coordination, accuracy, technique, timing) to such an extent that he became an undefeated heavyweight champion.

no small feat. Still doesnt change the fact that in order to be an ATG you have to be able to compete across eras and I doubt he could compete past the 50s. TOO MUCH SKILL N SIZE

[SUBZER0ED]

I made it clear. He was a great fighter and he did well for HIS time....ALL time he would get murdered and his resume is thin too.

Just my 2 cents.

I gave him credit he just isnt an all time great heavyweight to me...all time means he could compete in any era and be elite....i doubt he wouldve been elite in the 60s, 70s, or even the 80s, he gets raped vs the 90s heavies and even todays guys like wilder make easy work of him

imo he did well for himself in his era but i dont think he would have faired as well in deeper eras

Thanks for that...