Tighten the screws

[StarshipTrooper]

Golota was destroying Bowe twice and Grant before his meltdown. Had he not had these mental lapses we may have been looking at him today in a whole different light. He showed excellent skills in his career but was plagued by anxiety.

And can you put your finger on an actual win? Any win? Any at all?

I think many would disagree with this. Valero's power and Ayala ability to hold his own with Pipino Cuevas at age 14 are very impressive.

Let them. If superficial "fans" want to get erections over power that's their business. I decline to jump on the bandwagon. It takes more than a bunch of quick KOs over the usual run of no-hopers to impress me.....it doesn't even impress me regarding their power as, again, I consider the opponents.

Ayala had a win over Cuevas in the pros? No? I didn't think so. I don't put any stock in what goes on in sparring or the amatuers. Pryor kicked the **** out of Hearns in the ams. In the pros Pryor would have been cannon fodder for Hearns.

With the exception of McCall and Golota, all of their careers were derailed before the got the chance to accomplish anything significant.

And? That's kind of a clue that speculating on how they would have done is an excerise in wishful thinking as there's nothing to base the specualtion on. At least Ibeabuchi (and even McCall) have wins over legitimate opponents to base the specualtion on. Ayala, Golota, and Valero don't.

Poet

[JAB5239]

And can you put your finger on an actual win? Any win? Any at all?




Let them. If superficial "fans" want to get erections over power that's their business. I decline to jump on the bandwagon. It takes more than a bunch of quick KOs over the usual run of no-hopers to impress me.....it doesn't even impress me regarding their power as, again, I consider the opponents.

Ayala had a win over Cuevas in the pros? No? I didn't think so. I don't put any stock in what goes on in sparring or the amatuers. Pryor kicked the **** out of Hearns in the ams. In the pros Pryor would have been cannon fodder for Hearns.



And? That's kind of a clue that speculating on how they would have done is an excerise in wishful thinking as there's nothing to base the specualtion on. At least Ibeabuchi (and even McCall) have wins over legitimate opponents to base the specualtion on. Ayala, Golota, and Valero don't.

Poet

You're missing the point. Its about potential and what MAY have been achieved had they all not had their own personal demons, not what they did manage to accomplish. If we do it this way both McCall and Valero have to go to the top of the list by virtue of winning world titles, no?

[StarshipTrooper]

You're missing the point. Its about potential and what MAY have been achieved had they all not had their own personal demons, not what they did manage to accomplish. If we do it this way both McCall and Valero have to go to the top of the list by virtue of winning world titles, no?

Ah, but how can one gauge potential without ANY sort measuring stick to guage it against?

Poet

[joseph5620]

I thought of Valero as over rated and a knock out waiting to happen with his chin so exposed and the talent he was getting to so deep.

To me Ayala was clearly the most gifted, and had he not run into trouble would have gone the furthest in my opinion. Would order would you rate these guys based on potential had they never had serious problems?

Ayala
Golota
Ike
Valero
McCall

I agree with you completely about Valero and I have said the same thing. Ayala had a lot of potential but I still don't really think he would have beaten fighters like Duran,Leonard, Hagler,or Hearns. I think Ike showed a lot of promise as well. But like Ayala I'm not sure he would have beaten the top fighters like Holyfield or Lewis.

[TBear]

I went with Ibeabuchi. I could understand an arguement for Ayala but Ibeabuchi beat higher ranked opponents before flying off.
Golota and McCall it seems like they acheived their potential. Valero to me is a queston mark because even he acquired titles, he was as much untested as Ibeabuchi and Ayala.

[JAB5239]

Ah, but how can one gauge potential without ANY sort measuring stick to guage it against?

Poet

We gauge it on who they did fight at a particular time in their careers. I don't think its fair to rate a fighter just because he was fortunate enough to have been able to move up the boxing ladder and get better fighters earlier. Do you think its fair to rate a fighter like Ray Leonard just winning the gold against some club fighter with 20 pro fights even though we know he has more potential?

[JAB5239]

I agree with you completely about Valero and I have said the same thing. Ayala had a lot of potential but I still don't really think he would have beaten fighters like Duran,Leonard, Hagler,or Hearns. I think Ike showed a lot of promise as well. But like Ayala I'm not sure he would have beaten the top fighters like Holyfield or Lewis.

I don't think either Ike or Ayala beat the very top fighters.

[JAB5239]

I went with Ibeabuchi. I could understand an arguement for Ayala but Ibeabuchi beat higher ranked opponents before flying off.
Golota and McCall it seems like they acheived their potential. Valero to me is a queston mark because even he acquired titles, he was as much untested as Ibeabuchi and Ayala.

They achieved what they could under the circumstances. How much further could they have gone were the mentally more balanced? We know Golota SHOULD have 2 wins over Bowe.

[Toney616]

James Toney:
He had the potrntial to go down as a atg fighter, but after the Jones loss he really went of the rails. His drug of choice, was chess burgers