The all new, Mayweather/Pac Master Discussion Thread - The fight that will never be.

[ADP02]

When was the last time Manny went into a division and beat the top 2 guys or 2 of the top 3 guys in a division?


Who was the last WW that Pac fought and beat who looked good in their previous fight or just simply came off a win?


Anyone care to take the challenge?

Oh, I found your post you made once the topic was too hot for you to handle.

Response: Those are just numbers that don't always reflect reality. Secondly, I proved it to you when I brought up those ranked fighters against Floyd that it can be meaningless (eg. Marquez is #2P4P)

Now let's stick to Manny even though the topic was Manny vs Floyd's resume .....

1)
Who would you consider a threat at 140 more than Hatton?
Who would you consider more threatening than Cotto at 147?

Even if you come up with a name, I would think that the above 2 fighters would have given them a good fight. So that is all that needs to be said on this subject really ..... UNLESS YOU ARE A FLOYD FAN TO THE CORE OR A MANNY HATER TO THE CORE.


2) Not that it matters because its SILLY but just to answer you:

Cotto won twice before Manny faced him.

Hatton never lost at 140 prior to facing Manny and that was his true career fighting weight.

Marquez won many fights prior to facing Manny.

Oscar won his previous fight.

Margarito won his previous fight.

Mosley drew but I thought he should have lost.

Clottey lost his previous fight but had a decent fight and could have ended up the winner. Close fight.

Bradley won his previous fights as he has never lost.





but only Floyd fans think that way as you just proved my point .... Personally, I would rather Manny face a Cotto that almost lost his previous fight than fight someone named Baldomir who won his previous fights .... but that is just me.

Only Floyd fans think that losing a fight is the end of the world. Many fighters have lost but that didn't mean that they were not good anymore or that they were not risky opponents.
Example: Ali lost to Frazier and Norton while Foreman demolished those two easily. So did that mean that Foreman shouldn't fight Ali?


Manny may be facing his toughest opponent for his 4th time. So it would be ludicrous to say that Manny takes on easy opponents only.

Finally, going by who Manny faced in the last few years, there were several fights where critics thought he would lose or be in the fight of his life. Examples, Oscar, Cotto, Clottey, Bradley ..... looking back, Manny made it look easy but going into the fight it was a different discussion.

[WESS]

I'll explain.

Mayweather's wins at WW came over men who were ranked 1, 2 or 3.

Manny Pacquiao's wins came over men who were ranked 5th .. with Cotto being the only one who was ranked 4th.

Its really just that simple.

Floyd fought champions who were coming off career wins with the exception of Judah.

All of Pacquiao's competition at WW were either beaten badly in their previous fight before Manny, or they had a tune up against a bum in between.

For you to try to justify Manny's resume being comparable to Floyd's at WW is laughable.

Usually you are one of the few that competently discusses Pacquiao's career and decisions. However apparently Pacquiao hasn't left you alot of room or evidence from which to defend him, and now even you are reduced to having to supplement fiction for facts.

Manny's entire career above 135lbs is a joke.

Originally Posted by Brother Jay
Like it or not, without the DLH, Cotto and Margarito wins, Pacquiao would have to rely on his win over Clottey and Mosley .. both of which the boxing world have labeled as bull**** cherry picking.

Know your boxing.

Manny has 40 straight fights against bums. Its shameful padding. Not only that, but 2 of those bums managed to knock Pacquiao out.

That means he has only 19 other fights in which to judge him. Of those 19 fights, Manny specifically targeted 6 of his opponents coming off career losses. The trend is undeniable. They are DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley. Two of which were catchweights AND one of which was a vacant title against a then banned cheater.

19-6=13. 13 fights in which to judge Pacquiao.

They are:

1-Barrera
2-Marquez - DRAW
3-Battery
4-Morales - LOSS
5-Velazquez
6-Morales
7-Larios
8-Morales
9-Solis
10-Barrera
11-Marquez
12-Diaz
13-Marquez

Now, outside of those 13 fights, I challenge you to show me a legitimate match not including any catchweights that would serve to enhance the value of Manny Pacquiao's legacy. The 6 that I mentioned were all coming off of career losses and therefore were ranked out of the top three .. the ranked spots that have all to do with legacy.

Like it or not, RANK AND CONDITION OF A FIGHTER'S OPPONENTS ARE ALL THAT MATTERS AS IT PERTAINS TO WEIGHING A LEGACY VALUE.

If anything else were relevant, then opinions would hold weight in a conversation about the merits of legacy. They don't.

I said that to say that Manny Pacquiao's star power comes from three specific matches: DLH, Cotto and Margarito.

Take those three wins away and Manny's biggest wins come over Barrera, Morales and Marquez(2 which are VERY debatable, the last was a robbery).

Now go ahead and make a case for Pacquiao being a superstar without those three wins when you take a good and honest look at the 13 fights he has since first fighting Barrera.

For sure Manny puts on great performances. That's undeniable as well. However great performances do not equal a great legacy when the opposition doesn't warrant the value given to enhance one's legacy.

Your arguments are weak. Your so-called facts are really just strongly expressed opinions. Manny Pacquiao had a chance to be great but instead he let Arum protext him from any real greatness.

Just ask Manny and he'll tell you:

"You have to ask my promoter"

btw, great run down and in part reiterating what I had previously pointed out.

[WESS]

Oh, I found your post you made once the topic was too hot for you to handle.

Response: Those are just numbers that don't always reflect reality. Secondly, I proved it to you when I brought up those ranked fighters against Floyd that it can be meaningless (eg. Marquez is #2P4P)

Now let's stick to Manny even though the topic was Manny vs Floyd's resume .....

1)
Who would you consider a threat at 140 more than Hatton?
Who would you consider more threatening than Cotto at 147?

Even if you come up with a name, I would think that the above 2 fighters would have given them a good fight. So that is all that needs to be said on this subject really ..... UNLESS YOU ARE A FLOYD FAN TO THE CORE OR A MANNY HATER TO THE CORE.


2) Not that it matters because its SILLY but just to answer you:

Cotto won twice before Manny faced him.

Hatton never lost at 140 prior to facing Manny and that was his true career fighting weight.

Marquez won many fights prior to facing Manny.

Oscar won his previous fight.

Margarito won his previous fight.

Mosley drew but I thought he should have lost.

Clottey lost his previous fight but had a decent fight and could have ended up the winner. Close fight.

Bradley won his previous fights as he has never lost.





but only Floyd fans think that way as you just proved my point .... Personally, I would rather Manny face a Cotto that almost lost his previous fight than fight someone named Baldomir who won his previous fights .... but that is just me.

Only Floyd fans think that losing a fight is the end of the world. Manny fighters have lost but that didn't mean that they were not good anymore or that they were not risky opponents.
Example: Ali lost to Frazier and Norton while Foreman demolished those two easily. So did that mean that Foreman shouldn't fight Ali?


Manny may be facing his toughest opponent for his 4th time. So it would be ludicrous to say that Manny takes on easy opponents only.

Finally, going by who Manny faced in the last few years, there were several fights where critics thought he would lose or be in the fight of his life. Examples, Oscar, Cotto, Clottey, Bradley ..... looking back, Manny made it look easy but going into the fight it was a different discussion.

Those questions where directed to you earlier on and you kept avoiding them so I posted them separately for you to answer. However it it appeared that you had a handicap or a comprehension problem.

I felt bad for you and wanted to give you a chance to answer so I re-posted them several different times. Yet you still haven't answered them. You keep posting a bunch of spam and avoiding the questions.

Again your answers should only be a sentence or two long. Not a bunch of irreverent mess.

Did not read what BrotherJay wrote about all your opinionated spam? He broke it down quit clearly for you...

Once you answer the questions you will see the truth.

[ADP02]

Those questions where directed to you earlier on and you kept avoiding them so I posted them separately for you to answer. However it it appeared that you had a handicap or a comprehension problem.

I felt bad for you and wanted to give you a chance to answer so I re-posted them several different times. Yet you still haven't answered them. You keep posting a bunch of spam and avoiding the questions.

Again your answers should only be a sentence or two long. Not a bunch of irreverent mess.

Did not read what BrotherJay wrote about all your opinionated spam? He broke it down quit clearly for you...

Once you answer the questions you will see the truth.

I answered you plenty of times but unfortunately, you either change the subject or just make wise comments.

Manny faced Oscar, Cotto and Clottey as his first 3 fights at WW
Floyd faced Sharmba, Judah and Baldomir as his first 3 fights at WW

I say, not too shabby for Manny especially being that Manny was fighting at 130 and 135 the same year as he fought for his first time at 147 .....

Imagine, it could have been Manny faced Oscar, Cotto and Floyd but Floyd put them roadblocks.


Anyhow, you failed miserably at trying to expose Manny's resume. Also, for you to bring up "who his opponent fought previously" or "where were they ranked" is a total fail .... but that is expected from Floyd fans that think those are the only criteria to picking an opponent.
EXAMPLE AGAIN FOR YOU: Baldomir the champ or Cotto? It's so obvious for anyone reading unless you are totally into hating Manny ..... See you fail, man!

[WESS]

I answered you plenty of times but unfortunately, you either change the subject or just make wise comments.

Manny faced Oscar, Cotto and Clottey as his first 3 fights at WW
Floyd faced Sharmba, Judah and Baldomir as his first 3 fights at WW

I say, not too shabby for Manny especially being that Manny was fighting at 130 and 135 the same year as he fought for his first time at 147 .....

Imagine, it could have been Manny faced Oscar, Cotto and Floyd but Floyd put them roadblocks.


Anyhow, you failed miserably at trying to expose Manny's resume. Also, for you to bring up "who his opponent fought previously" or "where were they ranked" is a total fail .... but that is expected from Floyd fans that think those are the only criteria to picking an opponent.
EXAMPLE AGAIN FOR YOU: Baldomir the champ or Cotto? It's so obvious for anyone reading unless you are totally into hating Manny ..... See you fail, man!

Are you being a coward on purpose or do you not want to answer the questions because it destroys your agenda?

Answer or excuse yourself.

[ADP02]

Are you being a coward on purpose or do you not want to answer the questions because it destroys your agenda?

Answer or excuse yourself.

Sorry bro but you lost a long long long time ago but you never realized it as you must be in some Twilight Zone episode where you really believe that you proved that Manny's resume is exposed while Floyd's resume is great at WW ..... unfortunately you are having a hell of a problem snapping out of it .... WAKE UP WESS, WAKE UP!!! lol!

I may be wrong but if I'm wrong, SHOW ME THE PROOF PLEASE!!!! Break it down, fighter by fighter GO FOR IT .... don't go give me some lame Floyd excuse of who he fought last or that the guy wasn't ranked as high as Baldomir (lol!) ... you Floyd fans make me laugh!!! I'm starting to think that you really believe what you said.... lol!

[maguirre]

It's the same Floyd is better, Manny sucks discussion Maynever fans keep perpetuating. All Floyd has to do is prove himself by fighting Pac so we'll know he is really the best. But he won't fight Pac. He's hasn't grown balls after all these years. That means Pac will most likely beat the crap out of him. He'll most likely just run like a headless chicken once he felt Pacman's power. So at this point, I believe Pacman will beat him. Why else is he ducking the fight?

[WESS]

Sorry bro but you lost a long long long time ago but you never realized it as you must be in some Twilight Zone episode where you really believe that you proved that Manny's resume is exposed while Floyd's resume is great at WW ..... unfortunately you are having a hell of a problem snapping out of it .... WAKE UP WESS, WAKE UP!!! lol!

I may be wrong but if I'm wrong, SHOW ME THE PROOF PLEASE!!!! Break it down, fighter by fighter GO FOR IT .... don't go give me some lame Floyd excuse of who he fought last or that the guy wasn't ranked as high as Baldomir (lol!) ... you Floyd fans make me laugh!!! I'm starting to think that you really believe what you said.... lol!

You once again avoided the questions...

You keep referring to Mayweather having some great WW legacy. Son, I never said anything like that. I said he has a better WW record than Pac. Both Brother Jay and I have pointed this out multiple times.

I actually simplified this process for you with 2 questions. 2 questions you keep avoiding. You know the answers but keep avoiding them as it gives truth and destroys your agenda.

Again, answer them or bow out.

[ADP02]

It's the same Floyd is better, Manny sucks discussion Maynever fans keep perpetuating. All Floyd has to do is prove himself by fighting Pac so we'll know he is really the best. But he won't fight Pac. He's hasn't grown balls after all these years. That means Pac will most likely beat the crap out of him. He'll most likely just run like a headless chicken once he felt Pacman's power. So at this point, I believe Pacman will beat him. Why else is he ducking the fight?

That's the thing .... Floyd's fans are saying this (ie. Manny sucks) but Floyd Jr & Sr keep on bringing up how come Manny was able to walk thru them big WWs and in the next sentence Floyd's health ....... something is not right here BUT Floyd fans are blind to this fact!!!

[ADP02]

You once again avoided the questions...

You keep referring to Mayweather having some great WW legacy. Son, I never said anything like that. I said he has a better WW record than Pac. Both Brother Jay and I have pointed this out multiple times.

I actually simplified this process for you with 2 questions. 2 questions you keep avoiding. You know the answers but keep avoiding them as it gives truth and destroys your agenda.

Again, answer them or bow out.

OK, at least some truth .... Floyd doesn't have a great resume at WW .... but you say its better than Manny since Manny's is bad ..... did I get this right? If so, please explain in detail, fighter by fighter, what makes Floyd's better than Manny to the point that Manny's is exposed resume while Floyd's isn't.

Again, correct where I was wrong ... and where I was not, either way, SHOW ME THIS PROOF!!!!

Finally, as I have brought up since the beginning, if Manny's resume is so unimpressive to you, why the concern by Floyd Jr and Sr?

GO Wess, you can do it!!!