The Mistake EVERYBODY Makes Against Mayweather.

[charlieg]

There's an interesting dynamic happening here, and it's a problem.

I do not believe that judges will score those as points for you.

You are right, and I really should have added a bit more for that strategy to make sense. The main purpose of that strategy is to make Mayweather lead, which will open up his defense a little. If he doesn't open up, you could win rounds by activity alone if you can stay out of range. Even if your punches are not landing clean, if Mayweather is not landing anything of note either and you threw double his output, you'll take the round I think.

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Y'know who, in a P4P equivalent fight (scale them up/down/whatever), would beat Mayweather? Hopkins.

Firstly, he has excellent concentration, which I believe is one of the main failings of many fighters, even some of the great ones. There are many clips of Mayweather countering Marquez as he throws a shot and brings his hand back low - were he to bring his hands back high (as he does early in the fight or against lesser fighters) the counter would be blocked. As he got frustrated, his concentration ebbed. Hopkins has impeccable concentration (as does Floyd).

Also too many fighters throw punches without coming in behind them, standing in perfect range for a counter. Hopkins throws a shot and brings himself in behind it. You can't counter it cleanly, as you have a choice to either take the shot and counter (and very, very few fighters are capable of this) or block/dodge it and lose the opportunity as the gap is gone.

Finally you need an incredible inside game. Floyd has a very good inside game but it is nearly entirely defensive and mainly based around using his hip to manoeuvre opponents. Hopkins would ruffle Mayweather up, creating gaps just big enough to land scoring shots. (Hatton did try to rough Mayweather up, but he charged in with looping shots that Floyd could easily counter, and smoothered himself on the inside in the moments that Floyd didn't tie him up.)

To beat Hopkins you need the kind of proactive offensive game that a prime RJJ or Calzaghe had, and Jermaine Taylor had to a lesser degree. Nobody really lands counters against him.

[NET]

You need to have a plan A. B. and C.

Because he's going to be there to counter you so you have to know how to counter his counters. If you fight stupidly like Hatton you're dead meat.

This is why I think Pac would get murdered cuz' he fights stupid when someone outsmarts him. If you fight Floyd you have to think, not because he's so great physically but because he's always thinking in the ring.

You can't fall for his bull****.

[Gino Ros]

That's the thing that some people (fans not boxers or trainers) don't realize, Floyd's offense is almost as good as his defense. If you try to get too defensive with Floyd he will just pick you apart because you're going to give him all the the time in the world to think and pick his shots.

I agree with you and I'm giving his offense props in the OP.

But I have heard Floyd say that he doesn't throw the punch unless he feels he can land and unless he feels the guy isn't expecting it.



So I feel that his offensive output would drop even further if he was facing a defensively minded opponent. People kill Pac for facing slow, come-forward stiffs. True. But May has faced a bunch of poor defensive fighters.

Oscar, Hatton, Judah, Mosley, Marquez, Ortiz. Not a defensive wiz in the bunch. And I don't mean compared to Floyd. I mean period.

[Brother Jay]

One thing that always intrigues me is his opponents don't seem to be more inventive in their approach. They head hunt and he shoulder rolls. They try to bring a left to the body and he counters with the right.

I would forget about trying to land clean shots. I'd step back a bit and take what's easily available, or indeed just given.

1. The left bicep. He has no way of defending this. If you hit him in the arm for 5-6 rounds it will start to hurt, a lot.

2. He stands very side-on. I'd go just above the left hip.

As an orthodox fighter, I'd just use my left jab/hook to the bicep, and straight rights to the area just above the hip - even venturing towards the kidney area and test what the ref will allow.

And from there I would try to frustrate him. Head movement, keeping busy with those basic bits, and try and take him out of his comfort zone by winning rounds with activity whilst keeping out of range by just targeting the bits of his body that are nearest with straightforward in-out 1-2 hits.

Something tells me that I'm not the first guy/fighter to think this though.

As Iron Mike liked to say, we all have a plan until we get hit.

Great post.

There's just one thing: Mayweather adapts.

He's not like a lot of these guys who come in with just one game plan. He adjusts as there is a need to adjust.

If you enjoy some amount of success against Floyd, you can be sure that he'll switch up and come at you a different way. I've seen him do it plenty of times. If you manage to land cleanly a few times on Floyd after he adjusts, he'll just adjust again. And each time he adjusts you can be sure its so that he can get to you now.

Now, how many boxers of this generation have the ability to change on the fly? How many can adjust to the adjuster? How many current fighters can adapt to a new approach while in the middle of a match that they did not prepare for?

It would take someone special and there isn't any one that special competing where Mayweather is.

I don't think anyone will beat Floyd. I think either age or going up in weight will be his undoing.

[-Kev-]

It's easier to attack than to defend.

If boxers could defend themselves more, they would do it. Nobody wants to get hit, don't believe what any one says, nobody wants ot get hit. A lot of fighters have no choice but to get hit, so they just brace themselves and develop a strong chin for their lack of defense at an early age. Some fighters, all they is how to attack, they couldn't come up with a good defense even if you bring in a master defensive coach. For example Floyd Sr for Hatton. You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Ortiz is not a defensive fighter, and has little defense. And he won't all of a sudden know how to defend for one fight, after he's been fighting all out offensively for 33 pro fights.

This is the case for most boxers.

[Gino Ros]

Finally you need an incredible inside game. Floyd has a very good inside game but it is nearly entirely defensive and mainly based around using his hip to manoeuvre opponents. Hopkins would ruffle Mayweather up, creating gaps just big enough to land scoring shots. (Hatton did try to rough Mayweather up, but he charged in with looping shots that Floyd could easily counter, and smoothered himself on the inside in the moments that Floyd didn't tie him up.)

To beat Hopkins you need the kind of proactive offensive game that a prime RJJ or Calzaghe had, and Jermaine Taylor had to a lesser degree. Nobody really lands counters against him.

You, sir, are a real fight fan. You see that **** that Floyd does with his hip.

I was a longtime wrestler. And they always told us "control the hips, control the body".

many people talk about how Manny works angles with his feet and punches. Floyd does the same - just with his hip.

Floyd and hopkins do a lot of the same things. The reason I feel May would beat Hop is because Hop has trouble with athletic guys: Jones, taylor, calzaghe, Pascal 1.

Floyd has as much (?) technical ability as Bernard, with superior athleticism. It would be like Bernard fighting himself...but in Roy jones' body.

nahmean?

[NET]

It's easier to attack than to defend.

If boxers could defend themselves more, they would do it. Nobody wants ot get hit. Some fighters, all they is how to attack, they couldn't come up with a good defense even if you bring in a master defensive coach. For example Floyd Sr for Hatton. You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Ortiz is not a defensive fighter, and has little defense. And he won't all of a sudden know how to defend for one fight, after he's been fighting all out offensively for 33 pro fights.

This is the case for most boxers.

You're a fucking idiot. Step into a gym sometime and try to throw punches against a guy who's running and defending all round and you'll see how easy it is to just attack.

The guy on defense is one step ahead because he can sit there and watch you act first dipshit.

[The Gambler1981]

There really aren't that many good defensive fighters though, I would be hard pressed to name one he could have fought.

I guess he could have fought Spinks but I don't think that type of defense is stopping Floyd, nor do I really consider him a defensive guy just a guy who moves a lot.

[KitangKatag]

If Floyd faught cotto, margarito we would have a fair idea but he didnt, he fought fighters he can surely win and dominate with.

[Gino Ros]

You're a fucking idiot. Step into a gym sometime and try to throw punches against a guy who's running and defending all round and you'll see how easy it is to just attack.

The guy on defense is one step ahead because he can sit there and watch you act first dipshit.

Hey, primo.

Can you please do me a solid? If you disagree, just state why and educate. No need to belittle with insults.

I don't want this good boxing discussion to devolve to a flame war.

Gracias, mano