How does Floyd's win over Marquez look after JMM's 3rd Pacquiao fight?

[Rk16]

Totally different.....JMM had to move up in weight and was not able to successfully adapt to 144 when he fought Floyd. Floyd cheated the weight and came in heavy as well. Against Manny, he felt comfortable at the weight and I presume he had some "help" filling in at the weight. He looked much faster and stronger at 147 against Manny.

If JMM fought Floyd at 147 now, he would look much better than he did 2 years ago.

Doubtful,Floyd is a terrible match up cos he forces Marquez to lead,it's the reason he struggled with John too!
Floyd used his reach and ability to control range to beat Marquez,something he will always have over Marquez
I like Marquez but his style will never trouble Mayweather

[Brother Jay]

Check this out:

People saying Marquez was out of shape, cheated on the scales.

Same people don't ever want to see Mayweather-Marquez again, even if Marquez knocks Pacquiao out and comes in the the same "good shape" against Floyd, they wouldn't want to see it. You guys all know you're talking of your asses right now and Floyd would do exactly the same as he did in 2009, maybe even worse. Probably knocks out this brand new "shredded" Marquez.

Very good comment.

People don't want to see Mayweather/Marquez II because they don't believe JMM has a chance. JMM never wanted a rematch because he himself doesn't believe the outcome would be any better in his favor.

Few if any wanted to see Pacquiao/JMM III let alone Pacquiao/JMM IV as seen in the numbers, but in each instance Marquez' performance got better along with his belief that he could decisively defeat Pacquiao having done better the last time.

Very good observation Kev.

[Brother Jay]

In another post, I presented video clips of Cotto himself stating and laughing at the idea and said that could not be a cause of concern because he came in at 146lbs the prior fight. He said that prior to the fight, right after weigh-in and even after the fight, he didn't state that as the problem.

What was Cotto supposed to say? He was trying to sell a fight, not dissuade people from being interested.

In fact, Cotto after weigh-in said he would be too big and strong for Manny.

Cotto also said that he wouldn't sacrifice his body again for Pacquiao. After that statement, Pacquiao absolutely refused to fight Cotto for that 154 belt. It was completely about size and weight with Pacquiao.

Cotto went on to say why he lost post fight. Cotto said Manny was just too fast and couldn't see the punches coming.

When a fighter is stipulated to come in at any weight aside from the division limit, he's going to be weaker for his troubles. If 1 or 2 pounds didn't make a difference, then why stipulate it? Just for the sake of asking?

That's stupidity.

If Manny really wanted to show the boxing world that he was more than hype, he would have let his opponents come in on fight night at any weight they wanted to like Mayweather has done. There should be an asterisk next to every win Pacquiao had where he stipulated some sort of weight manipulation.

Furthermore, Cotto came in at 145lbs on fight night .. and any real boxing fan knows that making weight is hard as hell, but stipulating that there would be no rehydration is even worse. Cotto's best advantage should have been his strength and size. Instead, Cotto came in with his advantages negated.

The proof are Cotto's comments about the proposed rematch .. where Cotto made it clear that he would fight Pacquiao, but he wouldn't allow them to dehydrate him to create an unfair advantage.

See? Cotto was willing as long as it was fair. Once it was made clear that Cotto wanted it fair, Pacquiao didn't want any part of it. There's no mystery as to why.

There is a difference when a fighter admits to there will be no problem coming down 1lb and stating that he will be too strong for Manny AT WEIGH-IN interview and the circumstances that had unfolded between Floyd vs Marquez.

Marquez didn't have to take the fight. He did it because he wanted the money and FOR NO OTHER REASON.

How many fans did you hear claiming that Mayweather's win over Marquez was something special? No one did. It was a chess match, but the weight issue took anything special about the win away. Even if Mayweather had won, JMM was smaller and so no one was expecting any different.

The only redeeming quality about that win for Floyd was the fact that he performed in a way where he didn't use size to win. Watch the fight. Floyd used speed, reflexes and accuracy to dominate that fight against a one of the best counter-punchers in the business.

For you to even attempt to compare the two is childish at best .... I can say worse but I will leave it at that.

The only comparisons that can really be made is that Floyd couldn't make that weight and gave JMM the option to not take the fight or collect a penalty sum and proceed. Pacquiao from the start hedged his bets INTENTIONALLY through contract to make sure Cotto came in weaker and diminished.

Now here's the kicker:

How many times has Floyd not made weight in his career?

Now ask the question: How many times has Pacquiao used weight manipulation games to create advantages for himself through contract?

Well .. one seems to be an incident and the other seems to be a pattern.

While I'm sure some will argue that Floyd didn't make weight on purpose, there is no evidence or trend to believe that.

There is definitely a trend where we see Pacquiao fighting diminished versions of former champions and not acknowledging the fact that he did so.

In fact, Paquiao has gone as far to say that he feels that he defeated DLH more convincingly that Mayweather ... despite Pacquiao STIPULATING that DLH come in at 145 .. a weight Oscar hadn't made in 7 years.

Now that's childish, misleading and downright dishonest.

There is no defense for Floyd not making weight.

That said, there is no defense for Pacquiao's run above 140lbs. Manny waited until each and every opponent, up until JMM, lost before he would face them. He dehydrated a few of them and he even had Arum set his stablemate, who was banned at the time, in a bogus title fight for a vacant belt he was never in line to compete for.

Hahaha .. you're correct. The comparisons are quite ridiculous.

Boxers fail to make weight all the time. This is a fact. No one has pulled the crap that Pacquiao has at 147 & 154 without being ridiculed.

Hell .. while many were celebrating Andre Ward's win over Dawson, many of the real boxing fans were calling the win "tainted" because Dawson came down instead of Ward going up like most champions do when trying to take the world by storm.

That shows it isn't bias.

If it were all about some supposed hatred for Pacquiao, it would have been easy for people to stay silent about what Ward had done and ride the wagon.

[flipbjefrox]

Floyd cheated the scale + he roided. It looks worse now

[AnKhang]

JMM has never fought above 135 lbs before the FMW bout. He (JMM) also had to move up two weight divisions for the fight. That I think is a recipe for disaster. And if posters consider Cotto drained when he fought Pac at 145 lbs when his previous bout with Clottey he (Cotto) weigh at 146 lbs, then it's safe to say JMM was bloated when he fought FMW.

[WESS]

What was Cotto supposed to say? He was trying to sell a fight, not dissuade people from being interested.



Cotto also said that he wouldn't sacrifice his body again for Pacquiao. After that statement, Pacquiao absolutely refused to fight Cotto for that 154 belt. It was completely about size and weight with Pacquiao.



When a fighter is stipulated to come in at any weight aside from the division limit, he's going to be weaker for his troubles. If 1 or 2 pounds didn't make a difference, then why stipulate it? Just for the sake of asking?

That's stupidity.

If Manny really wanted to show the boxing world that he was more than hype, he would have let his opponents come in on fight night at any weight they wanted to like Mayweather has done. There should be an asterisk next to every win Pacquiao had where he stipulated some sort of weight manipulation.

Furthermore, Cotto came in at 145lbs on fight night .. and any real boxing fan knows that making weight is hard as hell, but stipulating that there would be no rehydration is even worse. Cotto's best advantage should have been his strength and size. Instead, Cotto came in with his advantages negated.

The proof are Cotto's comments about the proposed rematch .. where Cotto made it clear that he would fight Pacquiao, but he wouldn't allow them to dehydrate him to create an unfair advantage.

See? Cotto was willing as long as it was fair. Once it was made clear that Cotto wanted it fair, Pacquiao didn't want any part of it. There's no mystery as to why.



Marquez didn't have to take the fight. He did it because he wanted the money and FOR NO OTHER REASON.

How many fans did you hear claiming that Mayweather's win over Marquez was something special? No one did. It was a chess match, but the weight issue took anything special about the win away. Even if Mayweather had won, JMM was smaller and so no one was expecting any different.

The only redeeming quality about that win for Floyd was the fact that he performed in a way where he didn't use size to win. Watch the fight. Floyd used speed, reflexes and accuracy to dominate that fight against a one of the best counter-punchers in the business.



The only comparisons that can really be made is that Floyd couldn't make that weight and gave JMM the option to not take the fight or collect a penalty sum and proceed. Pacquiao from the start hedged his bets INTENTIONALLY through contract to make sure Cotto came in weaker and diminished.

Now here's the kicker:

How many times has Floyd not made weight in his career?

Now ask the question: How many times has Pacquiao used weight manipulation games to create advantages for himself through contract?

Well .. one seems to be an incident and the other seems to be a pattern.

While I'm sure some will argue that Floyd didn't make weight on purpose, there is no evidence or trend to believe that.

There is definitely a trend where we see Pacquiao fighting diminished versions of former champions and not acknowledging the fact that he did so.

In fact, Paquiao has gone as far to say that he feels that he defeated DLH more convincingly that Mayweather ... despite Pacquiao STIPULATING that DLH come in at 145 .. a weight Oscar hadn't made in 7 years.

Now that's childish, misleading and downright dishonest.

There is no defense for Floyd not making weight.

That said, there is no defense for Pacquiao's run above 140lbs. Manny waited until each and every opponent, up until JMM, lost before he would face them. He dehydrated a few of them and he even had Arum set his stablemate, who was banned at the time, in a bogus title fight for a vacant belt he was never in line to compete for.

Hahaha .. you're correct. The comparisons are quite ridiculous.

Boxers fail to make weight all the time. This is a fact. No one has pulled the crap that Pacquiao has at 147 & 154 without being ridiculed.

Hell .. while many were celebrating Andre Ward's win over Dawson, many of the real boxing fans were calling the win "tainted" because Dawson came down instead of Ward going up like most champions do when trying to take the world by storm.

That shows it isn't bias.

If it were all about some supposed hatred for Pacquiao, it would have been easy for people to stay silent about what Ward had done and ride the wagon.

You're wasting your time.

[ADP02]

Marquez said he lost to Mayweather because he couldn't get Floyd to stand and trade and Floyd was too good at controlling range
What's your point

Cotto refused the rematch because he refused to sacrifice his body AGAIN!!!!
Seems to me like the weight was an issue for him
Marquez has gone back up to WW so seems he has no issue fighting at that weight

The difference was that one can see the truth. Floyd was too big for Marquez and it was obvious that even a non-boxing fan would realize that. Even Floyd himself couldn't dispute that it was a bad move to call up Marquez nearly 3 divisions up when he said "oh, it was just a tune up fight".

If Cotto doesn't want then I'm OK with that BUT let's be honest about this. Cotto asked Margarito to go down to 150-151 in their rematch and then agreed to fight at 153lbs .... but now Cotto is saying he can't go down to 150-151? I think that was more about not taking a chance of losing 2 times in a row and bringing down his stock. Cotto, who I respect, decided to take another path that would still bring him the money. I think that his path is to beat his next opponent and then fight Canelo.

[ADP02]

Marquez also said Floyd was just too cagey and hard to hit so....there you go

Marquez also said Floyd was better then him and that Floyd would beat Manny.

Yeah, but the pac turds like to ignore that.

Marquez said that Floyd doesn't take risks and fights defensively. Like I said in my previous posts, Marquez is a counter puncher so Floyd's style is all wrong for him. Now add the fact that Floyd was a true WW while Marquez had just moved up to 135lb then had to come up to 144lbs then add the fact Floyd came in overweight ....... man, to most this is just too obvious to even attempt to defend.

This was a disgrace on Floyd's part ..... plus if these new allegations about Floyd are true, ..... yikes!!!

[CHOWWOKKA]

So you don't give Pacquiao credit for the Cotto fight since 2 lbs make such a difference? afterall Cotto wasn't allowed to weigh 147 for the Pacquiao fight, with Cotto being a true 147 lb fighter.......



*cue the Pacquiao double standards*

Marquez said he lost to Mayweather because he couldn't get Floyd to stand and trade and Floyd was too good at controlling range
What's your point

Cotto refused the rematch because he refused to sacrifice his body AGAIN!!!!
Seems to me like the weight was an issue for him
Marquez has gone back up to WW so seems he has no issue fighting at that weight

If you want to discredit Msyweathers win over Marquez then fair enough
Floyd was indeed the bigger man
You also then have to discredit Pacquiao's win over Cotto for making him drain those extra few pounds

I think both are good wins and seen as both Marquez and Cotto agreed to fight at them weights they can have no complaint

Marquez called Floyd out and agreed to move up
He did not come in overweight tho,the week before they offered Marquez more money for the fight to be at WW
Marquez agreed,therefore I don't see the problem
If Marquez refused the money,Floyd would have been forced to cut the weight
So like Cotto,I blame Marquez for accepting

Marquez also said Floyd was just too cagey and hard to hit so....there you go

Marquez also said Floyd was better then him and that Floyd would beat Manny.

Jeez, so much murder. It's the holiday season too!

[ADP02]

What was Cotto supposed to say? He was trying to sell a fight, not dissuade people from being interested.



Cotto also said that he wouldn't sacrifice his body again for Pacquiao. After that statement, Pacquiao absolutely refused to fight Cotto for that 154 belt. It was completely about size and weight with Pacquiao.



When a fighter is stipulated to come in at any weight aside from the division limit, he's going to be weaker for his troubles. If 1 or 2 pounds didn't make a difference, then why stipulate it? Just for the sake of asking?

That's stupidity.

If Manny really wanted to show the boxing world that he was more than hype, he would have let his opponents come in on fight night at any weight they wanted to like Mayweather has done. There should be an asterisk next to every win Pacquiao had where he stipulated some sort of weight manipulation.

Furthermore, Cotto came in at 145lbs on fight night .. and any real boxing fan knows that making weight is hard as hell, but stipulating that there would be no rehydration is even worse. Cotto's best advantage should have been his strength and size. Instead, Cotto came in with his advantages negated.

The proof are Cotto's comments about the proposed rematch .. where Cotto made it clear that he would fight Pacquiao, but he wouldn't allow them to dehydrate him to create an unfair advantage.

See? Cotto was willing as long as it was fair. Once it was made clear that Cotto wanted it fair, Pacquiao didn't want any part of it. There's no mystery as to why.



Marquez didn't have to take the fight. He did it because he wanted the money and FOR NO OTHER REASON.

How many fans did you hear claiming that Mayweather's win over Marquez was something special? No one did. It was a chess match, but the weight issue took anything special about the win away. Even if Mayweather had won, JMM was smaller and so no one was expecting any different.

The only redeeming quality about that win for Floyd was the fact that he performed in a way where he didn't use size to win. Watch the fight. Floyd used speed, reflexes and accuracy to dominate that fight against a one of the best counter-punchers in the business.



The only comparisons that can really be made is that Floyd couldn't make that weight and gave JMM the option to not take the fight or collect a penalty sum and proceed. Pacquiao from the start hedged his bets INTENTIONALLY through contract to make sure Cotto came in weaker and diminished.

Now here's the kicker:

How many times has Floyd not made weight in his career?

Now ask the question: How many times has Pacquiao used weight manipulation games to create advantages for himself through contract?

Well .. one seems to be an incident and the other seems to be a pattern.

While I'm sure some will argue that Floyd didn't make weight on purpose, there is no evidence or trend to believe that.

There is definitely a trend where we see Pacquiao fighting diminished versions of former champions and not acknowledging the fact that he did so.

In fact, Paquiao has gone as far to say that he feels that he defeated DLH more convincingly that Mayweather ... despite Pacquiao STIPULATING that DLH come in at 145 .. a weight Oscar hadn't made in 7 years.

Now that's childish, misleading and downright dishonest.

There is no defense for Floyd not making weight.

That said, there is no defense for Pacquiao's run above 140lbs. Manny waited until each and every opponent, up until JMM, lost before he would face them. He dehydrated a few of them and he even had Arum set his stablemate, who was banned at the time, in a bogus title fight for a vacant belt he was never in line to compete for.

Hahaha .. you're correct. The comparisons are quite ridiculous.

Boxers fail to make weight all the time. This is a fact. No one has pulled the crap that Pacquiao has at 147 & 154 without being ridiculed.

Hell .. while many were celebrating Andre Ward's win over Dawson, many of the real boxing fans were calling the win "tainted" because Dawson came down instead of Ward going up like most champions do when trying to take the world by storm.

That shows it isn't bias.

If it were all about some supposed hatred for Pacquiao, it would have been easy for people to stay silent about what Ward had done and ride the wagon.

What was Cotto supposed to say? He was trying to sell a fight, not dissuade people from being interested.

RESPONSE: WRONG!!! Was he still selling the fight in his post-fight interview when he said "Manny was just too fast that I couldn't see the punches?

Cotto also said that he wouldn't sacrifice his body again for Pacquiao. After that statement, Pacquiao absolutely refused to fight Cotto for that 154 belt. It was completely about size and weight with Pacquiao.

RESPONSE: Cotto wanted to fight Margarito at 150-151 and agreed to 153lb


Your discussions on weight and refusal to go down in weight: See above response about Margarito rematch. As for fairness. Let's be fair, Manny was fighting a true WW for the first time and never made the 147lbs weighin in his only attempt prior to that. So they tried to find a middle ground and both agreed to 145lbs. Still, it was Cotto that said, "I lost because Manny was too fast and I couldn't see the punches". That is what COTTO SAID!!!

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Floyd vs Marquez: When a fighter has a huge size advantage then he can take more risks. Still, he wasn't very aggressive against a much smaller fighter ..... never put him away.

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Manny vs opponents

First of all, Manny had to climb in the ring as the smaller fighter so to say that he had all the advatages over those that weighed in at 160+ on fight night is redicuoous!

"but Manny fought someone with a loss " .... You Floyd fans make a loss look like its the end of the world. SRR, SRL, Ali, .... many others have lost. Same can be said about their opponents. So what!!!
SRR fought Jake LaMotta about 6 times and won 5 times ..... you would have criticized SRR too I suppose.

Ironically, Floyd fought Cotto. As Floyd would say, was Manny's leftovers. You guys were OK with that? Just asking ....


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