Lampley comments on PEDS

[-Kev-]

Very interesting. I liked that video, it should have been longer. I always enjoy listening to Lampley speak on boxing topics and stuff.

Although singers aren't punching any one in the face, Jim.

[The Evil 1-2]

There's plenty of studies, and anecdotal evidence, which is why many doctors will actually prescribe steroids if patients ask for them. They feel it is better that they take them under a doctors supervision than acquire them illegally and without constant checkups.

Long term steroid abuse has been shown to alter the left ventricle of the heart and there is other known side effects associated with synthetically introduced EPO and HGH in the human body.

These substances have medical uses. EPO (and the various forms it comes in) was initially developed for medical use, as with most other PED's. Doctors prescribe them when the benfit of doing so outweighs the negative consequences.

However, most of the arguments fall on what you cited as anecdotal evidence. However, you need more than qualitative analysis to give a definitive answer.

As for the consequences that stem from long-term steroid "abuse", it may be a result of unsupervised usage. However, this becomes less of a problem with the constant check-ups and medical supervision that you mentioned. For an individual who has a testosterone deficiency, how can one even make the argument that steroids are bad for prolonged use?

Now the ultimate question is whether PEDs/steroids are truly dangerous in the long run. There just hasn't been sufficient studies to give a definitive answer from a quantitative AND qualitative perspective.

The issue with PEDs/steroids in the realm of sports is really on the grounds of morality not so much medical safety. To refer back to the "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" documentary, why is it that sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber and training at altitude are legal to boost one's red blood cells, but blood doping and EPO aren't? All these methods are utilized for the same reason when it comes to sports.

With legalization, I believe that unsupervised usage will cease to exist, which may prevent unwanted negative side-effects. Unsupervised usage is due to the illegal nature of these substances in sports.

[check hook]

However, most of the arguments fall on what you cited as anecdotal evidence. However, you need more than qualitative analysis to give a definitive answer.

As for the consequences that stem from long-term steroid "abuse", it may be a result of unsupervised usage. However, this becomes less of a problem with the constant check-ups and medical supervision that you mentioned. For an individual who has a testosterone deficiency, how can one even make the argument that steroids are bad for prolonged use?

Now the ultimate question is whether PEDs/steroids are truly dangerous in the long run. There just hasn't been sufficient studies to give a definitive answer from a quantitative AND qualitative perspective.

The issue with PEDs/steroids in the realm of sports is really on the grounds of morality not so much medical safety. To refer back to the "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" documentary, why is it that sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber and training at altitude are legal to boost one's red blood cells, but blood doping and EPO aren't? All these methods are utilized for the same reason when it comes to sports.

With legalization, I believe that unsupervised usage will cease to exist, which may prevent unwanted negative side-effects. Unsupervised usage is due to the illegal nature of these substances in sports.

dude there is numerous and i mean numerous studies with empirical evidence about the side effects of various PED's FULL STOP. They have negative side-effects when used at levels that enhance performance. There are things you can do to "mitigate" negative side-effects, but the longer you use and the more you use, nothing will mitigate the negative effects.

[The Evil 1-2]

dude there is numerous and i mean numerous studies with empirical evidence about the side effects of various PED's FULL STOP. They have negative side-effects when used at levels that enhance performance. There are things you can do to "mitigate" negative side-effects, but the longer you use and the more you use, nothing will mitigate the negative effects.

Again, with proper medical supervision, these negative side-effects can be dealt with to a certain degree. To add, nothing is 100% safe. Hell, if I drink too much water, which is one of the building blocks of life, I CAN DIE. As you pointed out, PEDs/steroids do you have significant medical purposes. Professional athletes are subjected to constant training that the human body is simply not built to perform on a regular basis. Isn't it sensible to say that their bodies require the medical benefits from said substances?

Sorry to argue semantics, but we have to really define the phrase "enhance performance" because it's really thrown around these message boards very loosely. As Lampley pointed out, we don't apply the same negative connotation to the phrase when it comes to other areas in life. It's immoral for an athlete to use steroids/PEDs to help him or her in a sport. But it's not such a bad thing when regular folks use beta blockers to help them perform a certain job more effectively. Why is the line being drawn in some areas and not others?

[norrin]

I think pro wrestling would make a good case study of why not legalize steroids or peds. The following is a list of wrestlers that have died before the age of 65, not all on the list died of steroid or ped use but the % that have died is startling:

Chris Von Erich (Von Erich Family Tree) - 21
Mike Von Erich - 23
Louie Spiccoli - 27
Art Barr - 28
Gino Hernandez - 29
Lance Cade - 29
Jay Youngblood - 30
Rick McGraw - 30
Joey Marella - 30
Ed Gatner - 31
Buzz Sawyer - 32
Crash Holly - 32
Kerry Von Erich - 33
D.J. Peterson - 33
Eddie Gilbert - 33
The Renegade - 33
Chris Candido - 33
Test - 33
Adrian Adonis - 34
Gary Albright - 34
Bobby Duncum Jr. - 34
Owen Hart - 34
Yokozuna - 34
Big Dick Dudley - 34
Brian Pillman - 35
Marianna Komlos - 35
Umaga - 36
Pitbull #2 - 36
The Wall/Malice - 36
Emory Hale - 36
Leroy Brown - 38
Mark Curtis - 38
Eddie Guerrero - 38
John Kronus - 38
Davey Boy Smith - 39
Johnny Grunge - 39
Chris Kanyon - 40
Vivian Vachon - 40
Jeep Swenson - 40
Brady Boone - 40
Terry Gordy - 40
Bertha Faye - 40
Billy Joe Travis - 40
Chris Benoit - 40
Larry Cameron - 41
Rick Rude - 41
Randy Anderson - 41
Bruiser Brody - 42
Miss Elizabeth - 42
Big Boss Man - 42
Earthquake - 42
Mike Awesome - 42
Biff Wellington - 42
Brian Adams (Crush) - 43
Ray Candy - 43
Nancy Benoit (Woman) - 43
Dino Bravo - 44
Curt Hennig - 44
El Gigante/Giant Gonzalez - 44
Bam Bam Bigelow - 45
Jerry Blackwell - 45
Junkyard Dog - 45
Hercules - 45
Toni Adams - 45
Andre the Giant - 46
Big John Studd - 46
Chris Adams - 46
Mike Davis - 46
Hawk - 46
Mitsuharu Misawa - 46
Ludvig Borga - 47
Luna Vachon - 48
Steve Dunn - 48
Cousin Junior - 48
Dick Murdoch - 49
Jumbo Tsuruta - 49
Rocco Rock - 49
Sherri Martel - 49
Steve Williams - 49
Moondog Spot - 51
Bastion Booger/Norman the Lunatic - 53
Ken Timbs - 53
Uncle Elmer - 54
Pez Whatley - 54
The Angel of Death - 54
Eddie Graham - 55
Tarzan Tyler - 55
Haystacks Calhoun- 55
Giant Haystacks - 55
Buddy Rose - 56
Kurt Von Hess - 56
Moondog King - 56
Randy Savage - 58
Gene Anderson - 58
Dr. Jerry Graham - 58
Bulldog Brown - 58
Tony Parisi - 58
Rufus R. Jones - 60
Ray Stevens - 60
Stan Stasiak - 60
Terry Garvin - 60
Boris Malenko - 61
Little Beaver - 61
Sapphire - 61
Shohei Baba - 61
Sir Oliver Humperdink - 62
Dick the Bruiser - 62
Wilbur Snyder - 62
George Cannon - 62
Karl Krupp - 62
Dale Lewis - 62
Gorilla Monsoon - 62
Hiro Matsuda - 62
Bad News Brown - 63
Bulldog Brower - 63
SD Jones - 63
Wahoo McDaniel - 63

http://prowrestling.about.com/od/wha...lersdeaths.htm

[check hook]

Again, with proper medical supervision, these negative side-effects can be dealt with to a certain degree. To add, nothing is 100% safe. Hell, if I drink too much water, which is one of the building blocks of life, I CAN DIE. As you pointed out, PEDs/steroids do you have significant medical purposes. Professional athletes are subjected to constant training that the human body is simply not built to perform on a regular basis. Isn't it sensible to say that their bodies require the medical benefits from said substances?

Sorry to argue semantics, but we have to really define the phrase "enhance performance" because it's really thrown around these message boards very loosely. As Lampley pointed out, we don't apply the same negative connotation to the phrase when it comes to other areas in life. It's immoral for an athlete to use steroids/PEDs to help him or her in a sport. But it's not such a bad thing when regular folks use beta blockers to help them perform a certain job more effectively. Why is the line being drawn in some areas and not others?

i wouldn't be totally against it if doctors prescribed steroids to help overcome very serious injuries in sports, for example severely broken legs and the like. If they are legal it is an even playing field, however i just don't see that happening. As for the second part in bold that is just a fact of life, and it happens everywhere and on many different topics and also what is and isn't acceptable.

Personally i don't condone it (especially for combat sports) because it puts the athletes at a greater risk than they already are in terms of their health. Boxers and other athletes will abuse PED's if legal by pushing the limit on how much they take to get that extra uplift in performance. Boxers who wouldn't take them in the current circumstances would be forced to in order to keep up with the rest....this is the main point of my argument.

It's an interesting topic, and ofcourse any point of view isn't going to be fullproof. It's almost akin to the argument for legalising recreational drugs, which i am for, which perhaps contradicts my stance here on the PED issue.

[guru]

I think pro wrestling would make a good case study of why not legalize steroids or peds. The following is a list of wrestlers that have died before the age of 65, not all on the list died of steroid or ped use but the % that have died is startling:

Chris Von Erich (Von Erich Family Tree) - 21
Mike Von Erich - 23
Louie Spiccoli - 27
Art Barr - 28
Gino Hernandez - 29
Lance Cade - 29
Jay Youngblood - 30
Rick McGraw - 30
Joey Marella - 30
Ed Gatner - 31
Buzz Sawyer - 32
Crash Holly - 32
Kerry Von Erich - 33
D.J. Peterson - 33
Eddie Gilbert - 33
The Renegade - 33
Chris Candido - 33
Test - 33
Adrian Adonis - 34
Gary Albright - 34
Bobby Duncum Jr. - 34
Owen Hart - 34
Yokozuna - 34
Big Dick Dudley - 34
Brian Pillman - 35
Marianna Komlos - 35
Umaga - 36
Pitbull #2 - 36
The Wall/Malice - 36
Emory Hale - 36
Leroy Brown - 38
Mark Curtis - 38
Eddie Guerrero - 38
John Kronus - 38
Davey Boy Smith - 39
Johnny Grunge - 39
Chris Kanyon - 40
Vivian Vachon - 40
Jeep Swenson - 40
Brady Boone - 40
Terry Gordy - 40
Bertha Faye - 40
Billy Joe Travis - 40
Chris Benoit - 40
Larry Cameron - 41
Rick Rude - 41
Randy Anderson - 41
Bruiser Brody - 42
Miss Elizabeth - 42
Big Boss Man - 42
Earthquake - 42
Mike Awesome - 42
Biff Wellington - 42
Brian Adams (Crush) - 43
Ray Candy - 43
Nancy Benoit (Woman) - 43
Dino Bravo - 44
Curt Hennig - 44
El Gigante/Giant Gonzalez - 44
Bam Bam Bigelow - 45
Jerry Blackwell - 45
Junkyard Dog - 45
Hercules - 45
Toni Adams - 45
Andre the Giant - 46
Big John Studd - 46
Chris Adams - 46
Mike Davis - 46
Hawk - 46
Mitsuharu Misawa - 46
Ludvig Borga - 47
Luna Vachon - 48
Steve Dunn - 48
Cousin Junior - 48
Dick Murdoch - 49
Jumbo Tsuruta - 49
Rocco Rock - 49
Sherri Martel - 49
Steve Williams - 49
Moondog Spot - 51
Bastion Booger/Norman the Lunatic - 53
Ken Timbs - 53
Uncle Elmer - 54
Pez Whatley - 54
The Angel of Death - 54
Eddie Graham - 55
Tarzan Tyler - 55
Haystacks Calhoun- 55
Giant Haystacks - 55
Buddy Rose - 56
Kurt Von Hess - 56
Moondog King - 56
Randy Savage - 58
Gene Anderson - 58
Dr. Jerry Graham - 58
Bulldog Brown - 58
Tony Parisi - 58
Rufus R. Jones - 60
Ray Stevens - 60
Stan Stasiak - 60
Terry Garvin - 60
Boris Malenko - 61
Little Beaver - 61
Sapphire - 61
Shohei Baba - 61
Sir Oliver Humperdink - 62
Dick the Bruiser - 62
Wilbur Snyder - 62
George Cannon - 62
Karl Krupp - 62
Dale Lewis - 62
Gorilla Monsoon - 62
Hiro Matsuda - 62
Bad News Brown - 63
Bulldog Brower - 63
SD Jones - 63
Wahoo McDaniel - 63

http://prowrestling.about.com/od/wha...lersdeaths.htm

thats a list of wrestlers that have i died from different causes. show me something that states which of these wrestlers did indeed die of steroids.

[Eastbay Giant]

[MARKBNLV]

that is a very good set of points there.

but IF PEDs would actually be legalized, i could see that the stars would eventually be the PEDS and no longer the fighters themselves.

Problem is Tua if you are a star in the sport you can get untraceable drugs,hire chemists etc,then you have the problem of one clean guy fighting a dirty one,that appears clean but is not,its like Lance Armstrong that dude was on roids his own teamates have said so,but there is this fascination and love from sports fans for him that override that,on the other side you have Barry Bonds a hated figure in the sports world and with no proof whatsoever we have deemed him a cheater.

[MARKBNLV]

thats a list of wrestlers that have i died from different causes. show me something that states which of these wrestlers did indeed die of steroids.

That is overuse of steroids using cheap animal steroids and such,not to mention the beatings they put on there bodies and the excessive amount of drugs they take after matches.