Jack Dempsey vs Lennox Lewis

[billeau2]

Firpo was indeed very big and strong. But because he "only" measured 6' 2˝" in height I could see some of the size queens on here blowing him off as not being equivalent to a "modern super heavyweight."

That's why I brought up Willard and Carl Morris as well since they are comparable to Lennox Lewis in terms of height.

Understood. its funny how size and strength never troubled Dempsey yet size and strength would destroy him....

[joseph5620]

whats so funny here is that if you really look at this match up objetively the following becomes apparent:

a) Lewis fought great competition for sure, but against smaller guys who could punch...guys who were nowhere near the level of jack, He lost twice getting KO'ed in the process. Tua is a horrible fighter to compare with Dempsey BTW, Tua has no foot speed to speak of...the best fighter to compare jack with would be a prime Tyson, considering Tyson learned his style from Dempsey...but the Tyson that fought Lewis was a shell, so unfortunately we lost that data.

b) Of all the guys Dempsey fought, the big guys gave him the least trouble. Firpo was probably the stongest guy he fought, and he dealt with his strength well... Willard was a bit past it but was not even a hard fight for the Mauler.

I think given these facts, and the fact that Lewis does not have the best footwork, i.e. there is no logical reason to assume he moves better than willard...only that he is perhaps a better fighter on the whole...

Things look pretty good for Dempsey. Again, I never predict because things like the rules in play, etc could cause many possible outcomes...just saying!

There is no comparison between Lewis and Willard. Lewis is in another league as a fighter. Willard was awful. I don't even see that as a debatable topic.


The only thing Willard had was size and the fact that he outlasted a washed up Jack Johnson who was beating him handily.

[billeau2]

There is no comparison between Lewis and Willard. Lewis is in another league as a fighter. Willard was awful. I don't even see that as a debatable topic.


The only thing Willard had was size and the fact that he outlasted a washed up Jack Johnson who was beating him handily.

I actually said as much, I was referring simply to movement skills. Lewis does not move so well.

[Fury4daWIN]

You are oversimplifying "comig foward." Dempsey used angles and differences in horizontal placement when he came foward, he attacked at angles. I don't know where your romantic notions of Tua come from, but sure thing Dempsey could only dream of the type of resistance the modern Tua posseses, no doubt due to evolution and modernity right?

No, due to the fact that he wasn't a Samoan with a neck like a tree trunk.

[billeau2]

No, due to the fact that he wasn't a Samoan with a neck like a tree trunk.

Pretty much...Its actually very interesting with Samoans. They are all over MMA (at least in Northern Kali), but not so much in boxing. The culture is one where fight sports are actively participated in and they are very big...big and strong as strong can be. Yet in boxing....not so much.

Tua with all his strength and power moved in such a way that a lot of skilled guys could avoid his onslaught. Rahman was one of those guys. basically Tua should have studied Marciano and Armstrong, guys who used short arms to create a style where they pressed, slipped punches, and fought like pitbulls!

But yeah Dempsey was a lot different than Tua my friend! Not that Tua didn't have potential, but again, study the guys who will make you better, train in the methods that will get you farther.

[W. Ledochowski]

I'm not sure Dempsey would have been allowed to enter the ring with Lennox Lewis, and if he did, we would call Lewis all kinds of names for taking such a fight...

You can't compare Lewis with some of the big men from the early 1900, worlds apart in terms of technique, fundamentals, conditioning, delivery, many things evolved...

Dempsey is an ATG, he was great, in his time, that doesn't mean he would be competitive with modern heavies, let alone modern ATGs... These are mismatches, no other way around, just my opinion...

[juggernaut666]

I'd give Dempsey a better chance at beating a Klitschko or Lewis than Rocky. Taller, longer, faster hands and footwork, plus he's a hooker.

Dempsey was not as compact with his punches as Marciano who was a better refined fighter than Demspey and stronger puncher. The only thing he had was reach and height over Marciano. Which could be one advantage with a 6'5 guy with an 84 inch reach ,however I don't think it helps him with a guyu like Lewis who could fight on the inside or outside compared to Marciano who would have a SLIGHT punchers chance of catching Wlad who could have a bad night and doesn't like pressure fighters. Both Marciano and Demspey would be severly out matched in any switching of opponents.

[Anthony342]

Pretty much...Its actually very interesting with Samoans. They are all over MMA (at least in Northern Kali), but not so much in boxing. The culture is one where fight sports are actively participated in and they are very big...big and strong as strong can be. Yet in boxing....not so much.

Tua with all his strength and power moved in such a way that a lot of skilled guys could avoid his onslaught. Rahman was one of those guys. basically Tua should have studied Marciano and Armstrong, guys who used short arms to create a style where they pressed, slipped punches, and fought like pitbulls!

But yeah Dempsey was a lot different than Tua my friend! Not that Tua didn't have potential, but again, study the guys who will make you better, train in the methods that will get you farther.

Really? I don't know of any Samoan big names in MMA, so I guess none have reached that level yet. Not surprising though, with how big and strong they are. A lot of them are also involved in football as well, as guys with that kind of size can make pretty good linemen. In pro wrestling, there's the entire Anoa'i family, which has been involved heavily in the business. Also Tonga Fifita, best known as Haku, was pretty successful in the business and his two sons are wrestlers as well. Many believe Tonga could've made it as a legit fighter, due to many famous incidents you can read about here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonga_..._and_incidents

[billeau2]

Really? I don't know of any Samoan big names in MMA, so I guess none have reached that level yet. Not surprising though, with how big and strong they are. A lot of them are also involved in football as well, as guys with that kind of size can make pretty good linemen. In pro wrestling, there's the entire Anoa'i family, which has been involved heavily in the business. Also Tonga Fifita, best known as Haku, was pretty successful in the business and his two sons are wrestlers as well. Many believe Tonga could've made it as a legit fighter, due to many famous incidents you can read about here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonga_..._and_incidents

There are a lot of Samoans coming up through the ranks in Northern California. I know because I was sort of an "honored guest" at the first shows in San Francisco. In our gym and in that area lots and lots of Tonga and Samoan's coming up.

I think in the years to come some of these guys will be coaching pros and turning pro...its a matter of time.

I know that as of yet there is not a big MMA professional presence. One thing to be aware of is that MMA is still sussing out amateur versus professional levels. There are starting to be many regional events where guys get paid and are pretty fair fighters actually. UFC is a small minority of guys who get paid to fight MMA and one thing about Dana White is the need to start to scout talent in areas...hence some of the shows and stuff where they put guys through a training for a place to fight.

[Ben Bolt]

I'm not sure Dempsey would have been allowed to enter the ring with Lennox Lewis, and if he did, we would call Lewis all kinds of names for taking such a fight...

You can't compare Lewis with some of the big men from the early 1900, worlds apart in terms of technique, fundamentals, conditioning, delivery, many things evolved...

Dempsey is an ATG, he was great, in his time, that doesn't mean he would be competitive with modern heavies, let alone modern ATGs... These are mismatches, no other way around, just my opinion...

Hear, hear!

Though, when comparing oldtimers with later pugilists, how would the former have coped if they had trained by more modern standards, and even used a bit of steroids (I do believe it’s not uncommon in today’s pro-boxing …)

Still, I find the cruiser Dempsey way too small to tangle Lewis.
But, it doesn’t take anything away from the Mauler. As Ledochowski put it: “Dempsey is an ATG, he was great, in his time …”