Wlad's "weak" chin

[DreamFighter]

Again... That is not prime Wlad. Not even close, not even 30% of today's Wlad.

Wlad is not prime now, hes 36. Past 35 means the beginning in a significant reduction in physical attributes, so its postprime in anyone unless they are such stupendously slow developers that they took till their mid-thirties to learn their trade (which is bad going in any career, isnt? never mind a sport). Wlad would have seen better performances when he had a 20something body if he hadnt been thick about them. Its his fault he didnt tap his superior assets back in his physical prime.

'not even 30%' ??? What a total joke of an estimate that is. Wlad gets taken down by a dangerous puncher who approaches his size in the ring, thats essentially what happens. Thank God he never got in the ring with Lewis and sticks to washed up guys like Thompson or comparative dwarves these days.

Corrie is not that bad as you want to represent him, but he is surely levels below Wlad's prime level.

again, you take the evidence available (retiring Corrie destroyed Wlad at his physical best) and reverse the conclusion that its obviously telling you. You just keep doing it relentlesly.

In contrast I am not saying Wlad is bad, but you need to recognise a man's limitations.

[Simurgh]

[QUOTE=DreamFighter;12907400]

Again... That is not prime Wlad. Not even close, not even 30% of today's Wlad. [/quote[ Wlad is not prime now, hes 36. 36 means the beginning in a significant reduction in physical attributes, so its postprime in anyone unless they are such stupendously slow developers that they took till their thirties to learn their trade (which is bad going in any career, isnt? never mind a sport).

again, you take the evidence available (retiring Corrie destroyed Wlad at his physical best) and reverse the conclusion that its obviously telling you. You just keep doing it relentlesly.

Wlad is in his prime now - no doubt about it. He was well in his prime in Haye's fight. I think even from that fight he improved. Again he wasn't even close to his prime when he fought Sanders.

If you want I can quote Wlad's, Manny's, and Banks interview saying how he developed in the recent years. Actually Banks thinks Wlad can still show much more. Manny said the same numerous of times.

Everything that wlad does now is at least 2-3 levels above how he was doing it when he fought Sanders. He didn't even slow down a bit, and that's the first thing that goes away with years. So I don't agree with your 'physical prime' remark. He actually looks even more athletic and muscular than he used to. It's not that unusual - look at Marquez. And Wlad said many times he made so many mistakes in his training during the earlier days.

I don't agree with you remark about 'slow learners' either. I don't see anything wrong with peaking in 30s (especially for HW). Moreover as he is very active. He fights a lot. You can call Corrie retiring golf player or however you want. That man was very good boxer who could bang. He caught Wlad early and that was it. It happens. He couldn't fought better that first round at his very prime.

He showed the same in Vitali's fight. Only after 4-5 he showed the signs of past-prime fighter but they never got there in Wlad's fight.

[DreamFighter]

[QUOTE=Simurgh;12907420]

If you want I can quote Wlad's, Manny's, and Banks interview saying how he developed in the recent years. Actually Banks thinks Wlad can still show much more.

everyone develops, thats happens to everyone in life. it doesnt mean their physical attributes stop sliding in their thirties. Bhop is a more skillful boxer at 50 than 25 year old Bernard but he'd gass out in round 6 and get spanked mafter that if he ever stepped in the ring with his younger self.

Everything that wlad does now is at least 2-3 levels above

no, his lung power and muscle power are both deterioating now, but its just not easily observable yet.

I don't agree with you remark about 'slow learners' either. I don't see anything wrong with peaking in 30s (especially for HW).

mm I am referring to post 35 fade out, not peaking in your early thirties which agreed a lot of HWs do.

[Simurgh]

Wlad is not prime now, hes 36. Past 35 means the beginning in a significant reduction in physical attributes, so its postprime in anyone unless they are such stupendously slow developers that they took till their mid-thirties to learn their trade (which is bad going in any career, isnt? never mind a sport). Wlad would have seen better performances when he had a 20something body if he hadnt been thick about them. Its his fault he didnt tap his superior assets back in his physical prime.

'not even 30%' ??? What a total joke of an estimate that is. Wlad gets taken down by a dangerous puncher who approaches his size in the ring, thats essentially what happens. Thank God he never got in the ring with Lewis and sticks to washed up guys like Thompson or comparative dwarves these days.

again, you take the evidence available (retiring Corrie destroyed Wlad at his physical best) and reverse the conclusion that its obviously telling you. You just keep doing it relentlesly.

In contrast I am not saying Wlad is bad, but you need to recognise a man's limitations.

Every fighter has limitations. Noone is perfect. That's just a common sense. What I am saying that it's far from limitation some people want to represent.

I didn't want to quote this but well..

Great Emanuel Steward....

Steward, 67, said: “Wlad has the best footwork, co-ordination and balance of any fighter I have ever worked with. He’s the most accurate, single-punch knockout guy I have seen.

“A guy can be completely fine, not hurt, and Wladimir can put his lights out with one shot.

“He is the most powerful natural talent I have worked with. In terms of jab, Wladimir is the best and after him I would put Lennox.

“Lewis was a more versatile fighter but in terms of boxing arsenal, Wladimir is better.”


That's about his limitations.

And please please please don't come up with 'Emanuel wanted to high up Wlad, or Emanuel was his trainer...' If you can't acknowledge Manny's opinion we really don't have anything else to talk about.

[Simurgh]

We should go back to topic.

I really don't want to compare fighters here. I'll just say all mentioned fighters are great ATG in my opinion (I don't mean sanders of course).

[DreamFighter]

I didn't want to quote this but well..

you didnt want to quote it becasue its a quote from his trainer. Hes hardly going to NOT sell his own man. Enzo Calzaghe is hardly going to tell us that Joe had crap accuracy and **** power. What kind of moronic trainer would you be to not big up your own fighter.

But why have you fallen for it? Thats like taking David Cameron's word for it that the Tory party is great for disabled people (when hes actually cutting their benefits).

[yoz]

Every fighter has limitations. Noone is perfect. That's just a common sense. What I am saying that it's far from limitation some people want to represent.

I didn't want to quote this but well..

Great Emanuel Steward....

Steward, 67, said: “Wlad has the best footwork, co-ordination and balance of any fighter I have ever worked with. He’s the most accurate, single-punch knockout guy I have seen.

“A guy can be completely fine, not hurt, and Wladimir can put his lights out with one shot.

“He is the most powerful natural talent I have worked with. In terms of jab, Wladimir is the best and after him I would put Lennox.

“Lewis was a more versatile fighter but in terms of boxing arsenal, Wladimir is better.”


That's about his limitations.

And please please please don't come up with 'Emanuel wanted to high up Wlad, or Emanuel was his trainer...' If you can't acknowledge Manny's opinion we really don't have anything else to talk about.

Rubbish.

Manny would have always picked Lennox over Wladimir.

This topic shouldn't concern Lennox at all. Lennox is a top 3-5 (to some GOAT) HW. Wladimir, which ever way you look at it, is a fringe top 10 at best; if he beats the upcoming threats, he'll be 9 or 10 (again, at best).

[Simurgh]

you didnt want to quote it becasue its a quote from his trainer. Hes hardly going to NOT sell his own man. Enzo Calzaghe is hardly going to tell us that Joe had crap accuracy and **** power. What kind of moronic trainer would you be to not big up your own fighter.

But why have you fallen for it? Thats like taking David Cameron's word for it that the Tory party is great for disabled people (when hes actually cutting their benefits).

This is exactly what I beg you not to do.

It stands against everything Emanuel Steward was standing for. He is known as the guy who use to give the credit to opposite fighter over his fighter. Wasn't he the one who openly said Lennox was better than McCall when he was McCall trainer - even before the fight.

And why go into details? Why he didn't just say Wlad is more talented, but he listed all the things he saw Wlad does better. Why jeopardize his global boxing image with that? and at that stage of his career. Wasn't he Lennox's trainer for the long time? Didn't he like Lennox very much, maybe even more than Wlad?

And selling out Wlad at that stage? I mean come on... Wlad sold out full 50-60k stadiums 7 times in row )

It just doesn't make any sense with the image and reputation of Manny Steward.

And you are wrong, I didn't want to quote this as I really really don't want to turn this to Lennox vs Wlad....

[Simurgh]

Rubbish.

Manny would have always picked Lennox over Wladimir.

This topic shouldn't concern Lennox at all. Lennox is a top 3-5 (to some GOAT) HW. Wladimir, which ever way you look at it, is a fringe top 10 at best; if he beats the upcoming threats, he'll be 9 or 10 (again, at best).

No, not at all. Manny said numerous times how he rate Lennox and Wlad. He even gave very detailed break down if they ever met. You want that one?

Your later remark doesn't really tells a lot. Of course on this forum most will choose Lennox over Wlad or for that sake most of american HW over wlad, but that's to be expected. If you go to German boxing site or Russian or easten europian forum the situation is all different. After all this is not talent show contents so bare voting doesn't tell a lot. Well it does actually - it says Lennox/american/british fans are much more numerous on this forum compared to Wlad's fans.

IMO Wlad will be in top5 after he retires. He is already in top10 easily. I have him same as Lennox at the moment. Will he go ever higher depends who he beat and if those fighters turn to be next HOF/ATG.

And again you are right - this forum shouldn't concern Lennox. I am just answering some other posts.

[damuttz112]

Steward said Wladimir is talented but Lewis is better because you have to give credit to the man who beat the better fighters. Lewis beat everyone in his era; something Wladimir cannot attest to.