Ron Paul introduces anti -tsa bill..

[Miburo]

What are they doing for trains? I board trains all the time with out a single pat down metal decetor or x-ray machine.

shouldnt they look into this before people start bombing the morning rush or the rush home instead of spending their time feeling up little kids?

or do they plan to wait till thousands die traveling to the fourth of july, easter, thanksgiving, or christmas day parade?

The idea of security checks of any sort for trains is laughable. Something like 10 million people pass through Shinjuku station alone every day in Tokyo, it's a perpetual mad scramble with scarcely any walking room from opening to closing, and that's just one major station. The situation is similar in New York and I imagine London and other hyper-urbanized areas. Security checks would render the entire transportation medium in any place where it is truly relied upon untenable. The Aum incident, London bombings, etc. have not and will never change any security policy.

[Spartacus Sully]

The idea of security checks of any sort for trains is laughable. Something like 10 million people pass through Shinjuku station alone every day in Tokyo, it's a perpetual mad scramble with scarcely any walking room from opening to closing, and that's just one major station. The situation is similar in New York and I imagine London and other hyper-urbanized areas. Security checks would render the entire transportation medium in any place where it is truly relied upon untenable. The Aum incident, London bombings, etc. have not and will never change any security policy.

its a completly retarted idea but im pretty sure as the law stands as US citizens we can force them to enforce their laws on all forms of transportation thus drawing their hyporipsy and unconstitutionality into the spot light along with the uneffectivivty of thier policy.

what would be best is to have some one unconstitutionally detained due to TSA policy and bring it to the supreme court haveing the origonal law allowing their existance found to be unconstitutional.

[squealpiggy]

What are they doing for trains? I board trains all the time with out a single pat down metal decetor or x-ray machine.

shouldnt they look into this before people start bombing the morning rush or the rush home instead of spending their time feeling up little kids?

or do they plan to wait till thousands die traveling to the fourth of july, easter, thanksgiving, or christmas day parade?

Trains are unlikely to be covered as the risks are far lower. If a bomb goes off on a train you might have a dozen deaths and a score of serious injuries. You'd have some minor injuries as the train is derailed and comes to a halt. You also have far more opportunity at detection as people are off and on trains all the time, so they are more alert to any danger. Add to that the fact that there is no opportunity to hijack a train, you have a relatively safe mode of transportation.

Planes are a much more serious matter. If a bomb goes off on a plane with 200 passengers then everybody on board dies. Furthermore that plane debris doesn't just disappear, it hits the ground. If experience tells us anything it is that such attacks are typically timed to go off over large urban centres which magnifies the casualty level significantly.

Plane bombs are more serious. Sure you have exceptions like the Madrid bombings or the London tube bombings but these were sophisticated and coordinated attacks rather than one individual with a small explosive device.

[Spartacus Sully]

Trains are unlikely to be covered as the risks are far lower. If a bomb goes off on a train you might have a dozen deaths and a score of serious injuries. You'd have some minor injuries as the train is derailed and comes to a halt. You also have far more opportunity at detection as people are off and on trains all the time, so they are more alert to any danger. Add to that the fact that there is no opportunity to hijack a train, you have a relatively safe mode of transportation.

Planes are a much more serious matter. If a bomb goes off on a plane with 200 passengers then everybody on board dies. Furthermore that plane debris doesn't just disappear, it hits the ground. If experience tells us anything it is that such attacks are typically timed to go off over large urban centres which magnifies the casualty level significantly.

Plane bombs are more serious. Sure you have exceptions like the Madrid bombings or the London tube bombings but these were sophisticated and coordinated attacks rather than one individual with a small explosive device.

objects in motion stay in motion a train de-raling at 60 mph isnt just coming to a stop and really only requires one person with a small explosive to derail it. and with a little more planning (putting the bomb near the front of the train) one could cause the train to jack knife into itself resulting in every one dieing.

ive gone to parades in philly the red bull down hill, the broad street run where im standing in between train cars with easily 1500+ people on each train. going to work in the mornings and coming home at night each train carries 500 people easily.

500 people in a train crash...i dont think only 12 people are dieing.

the government has made an organization that is constitutional but creates unconstitutional policy's. the constitution does not become void when you enter the school yard as it should not be void when you enter an airport.

[squealpiggy]

objects in motion stay in motion a train de-raling at 60 mph isnt just coming to a stop and really only requires one person with a small explosive to derail it.

ive gone to parades in philly the red bull down hill, the broad street run where im standing in between train cars with easily 1500+ people on each train. going to work in the mornings and coming home at night each train carries 500 people easily.

500 people in a train crash...i dont think only 12 people are dieing.

The July 7th London Tube Bombings led to total deaths of 56 people including the four suicide bombers. That was from four bombs at separate locations. Of these explosions the one causing the greatest casualties was at London Kings Cross on the Piccadilly line which is an enclosed tube, so the effects of the blast were concentrated, and that amounted to 26 deaths. The second greatest number of deaths were caused by a bomb not on a train at all, with 13 dying on the bus. The other two blasts caused 7 and 6 deaths respectively.

The average death toll per device was 12.5 and this was at rush hour on the London Underground system. These trains were absolutely packed.

The Madrid bombings were more severe, both in number of casualties and in level of force. A total of ten devices exploded with a death toll of 191, making it approximately 19 deaths per device.

By contrast the Air India bombing in 1985 resulted in the deaths of 329 people from a single device, and that was because it landed in the ocean. The Lockerbie bombing in 1988 had a death toll of 259 passengers and crew plus a further 11 people on the ground who were hit by falling debris. Again this was a single device.

And then you have 9/11, which wasn't a bombing but it was a hijacking. Hijackings are not something that trains are subject to (because the hijackers would have no control over where the train would end up - a hijacked diesel train could be simply rerouted until the fuel ran out and then the train could be boarded, and an electric train could have the power cut immediately) and that resulted in over 3000 deaths from four separate crashes.

[Spartacus Sully]

The July 7th London Tube Bombings led to total deaths of 56 people including the four suicide bombers. That was from four bombs at separate locations. Of these explosions the one causing the greatest casualties was at London Kings Cross on the Piccadilly line which is an enclosed tube, so the effects of the blast were concentrated, and that amounted to 26 deaths. The second greatest number of deaths were caused by a bomb not on a train at all, with 13 dying on the bus. The other two blasts caused 7 and 6 deaths respectively.

The average death toll per device was 12.5 and this was at rush hour on the London Underground system. These trains were absolutely packed.

The Madrid bombings were more severe, both in number of casualties and in level of force. A total of ten devices exploded with a death toll of 191, making it approximately 19 deaths per device.

By contrast the Air India bombing in 1985 resulted in the deaths of 329 people from a single device, and that was because it landed in the ocean. The Lockerbie bombing in 1988 had a death toll of 259 passengers and crew plus a further 11 people on the ground who were hit by falling debris. Again this was a single device.

And then you have 9/11, which wasn't a bombing but it was a hijacking. Hijackings are not something that trains are subject to (because the hijackers would have no control over where the train would end up - a hijacked diesel train could be simply rerouted until the fuel ran out and then the train could be boarded, and an electric train could have the power cut immediately) and that resulted in over 3000 deaths from four separate crashes.

so theres only been 2 train bombings, 2 plane bombings and 1 hiajcking in history? (not sarcasm or rehtorical i was looking for these numbers earlier and those were the only ones i found as well)

you make a point with the hijackins so i didnt mention that.

2 train bombings i look at it as 2 mistakes for people to learn from and improve apon.

only took em 2 plane bombings to to get 10 times better at it.

[squealpiggy]

so theres only been 2 train bombings, 2 plane bombings and 1 hiajcking in history? (not sarcasm or rehtorical i was looking for these numbers earlier and those were the only ones i found as well)

you make a point with the hijackins so i didnt mention that.

2 train bombings i look at it as 2 mistakes for people to learn from and improve apon.

only took em 2 plane bombings to to get 10 times better at it.

I just picked some examples to show you the difference in casualties between attacks on trains and attacks on planes. Terrorist attacks are rare, on planes because of security screening and on trains I'm guessing because of how limited casualties are. There's little available data for plane bombings as a result but you can get more information about trains and the possible effects by looking at crashes and derailments for casualties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derailment#20th_Century

There were very large amounts of casualties at the early part of the 20th century but if you look at the more recent ones there were very few casualties on trains traveling at speed, especially in the 21st century.

[Bastian Loc]

You're missing the point pigleto.


By their very own rationale, any place is a potential target. There is attacks in farmers markets, grocery stores, malls, trains.... I don't see why you're getting hung up on planes so much.

If people stand for this at the airport, its only a matter of time till its train stations, grocery stores, etc.

Thumbscanning, body scanning, pat downs, cctv surveillance, the whole 9.

The writing on the wall is pretty clear.

[squealpiggy]

You're missing the point pigleto.


By their very own rationale, any place is a potential target. There is attacks in farmers markets, grocery stores, malls, trains.... I don't see why you're getting hung up on planes so much.

If people stand for this at the airport, its only a matter of time till its train stations, grocery stores, etc.

Thumbscanning, body scanning, pat downs, cctv surveillance, the whole 9.

The writing on the wall is pretty clear.

I explained why. Would you understand better if I posted a youtube video?