Robinson vs Zale.. Who ducked who?

[mickey malone]

M&M, I didn't say that Zales size discounted him from fighting anyone it was just an observation just like me saying I liked his style!
As for Sugar Ray being and "oversized" welterweight the man fought at 160 for many many years and fought the best and was the Champ and the Best Ever!! How and why you would discredit him as a full middleweight at 5'11" and weighin consistantly at 160 once he was acclamated to the weight class.
Humean has it correct when stating the years weren't aligned for the bout!!

As to a match between them I think Sugar Ray handles Zale!
No disrespect meant to Zale but he would be taylored made for Sugar!
Ray.

Have'nt discredited anyone Ray. 'Blown up welter' is just a common term of phrase for when a ww moves up a division.. But i'm inclined to suspect SRR may have been nearer to 150 than 160 during the infancy of his mw career.

[Ray Corso]

He fought from 153 to 157 a few times before naturally coming in at 160. The expression "blown up" means someone whose "masquerading" as a full fledged representative of a weight class! In Robinsons case this isn't a correct discription. As a 147 to 150 he could beat any middleweight in the world as he proved in his first bout with Jake! Blown up is a derogatory term, meaning something he's not!!!
Thats all I'm stating, poor choice of words when it comes to the Middleweight Champion and Greatest Boxer Ever!

Ray

[Humean]

I'm with mickey malone in using 'blown up' in a non derogatory way, simply someone who is fighting at a weight perhaps higher than he should, or at least higher than he'd fight best at.

[Ray Corso]

Again "higher than he SHOULD"? ..."best at"? Has nothimng to do with Sugar Ray! he's the best at either weight and should & could do what he wants to do! Again poor choice of words when describing Sugarman!

Now if he was unable to compete at 160 then he'd be a "blown up" middleweight!!! The term doesn't have creedance when refering to Robinson!
Hello? Get it? Ray

[rightsideup]

Zale retired in 1948, Robinson started being a middleweight in about 1949. In 1948 Zale was 34 and had been a pro for 14 years. He probably made the right decision to retire after the Cerdan defeat. I have no knowledge about who Zale supposedly 'ducked' and even though he could have fought Robinson with Robinson being effectively a welterweight it was not Robinson that he most significantly missed fighting. Zale's career is strange because of the impact on the second world war. He missed 4 fighting years, when he would have been in his prime between the ages of 28-32. When his middleweight championship was finally unfrozen after the war and he went to defend it he fought a guy in Graziano who appears to be well down the list of the most deserving challengers. On the flip side the Graziano fight turned into a trilogy of classics! I doubt that Zale would have beaten middleweight Robinson circa 1949-1952 even at his best.

I will have to do some reading in Ray Arcel's biography but I think ray was encouraging tony to retire after regaining the title from Rocky.

[mickey malone]

Again "higher than he SHOULD"? ..."best at"? Has nothimng to do with Sugar Ray! he's the best at either weight and should & could do what he wants to do! Again poor choice of words when describing Sugarman!

Now if he was unable to compete at 160 then he'd be a "blown up" middleweight!!! The term doesn't have creedance when refering to Robinson!
Hello? Get it? Ray

Like he was against Maxim..

It is'nt a crime to have the opinion he was a better ww than he was a mw, or a better mw than he was a lthvt. Lost to less talented fighters with inferior techniques in the later two divisions, so fact is, he was his best at 147.. Still an atg mw, and so were Greb, Monzon and Hagler, but you're clearly blinkered by nuthuggery where Robinson's concerned.

[Ray Corso]

nuthuggery is for the gobber fans like yourself! I have no problem giving props to the most talented fighter that the sport of boxing has ever had! That being said your welcomed to have your own opinions but your not welcomed to change the vanacular used in the sport to suit your needs!
If you enter a post on a boxing forum and use terms without actually knowing their meaning and someone corrects you just say thanks!
Fact is he was the same at Middleweight the competition was better thats all!
The vast majority of his loses (19)(out of 200) were at the end and as I said no one stopped him. Great fighters like Louis, LoMatta, Charles, Moore, Ali, Holmes etc. all got stopped when they fought on beyond their best!
Enough with you, you bore me! nite kids! Ray.

[StarshipTrooper]

nuthuggery is for the gobber fans like yourself! I have no problem giving props to the most talented fighter that the sport of boxing has ever had! That being said your welcomed to have your own opinions but your not welcomed to change the vanacular used in the sport to suit your needs!
If you enter a post on a boxing forum and use terms without actually knowing their meaning and someone corrects you just say thanks!
Fact is he was the same at Middleweight the competition was better thats all!
The vast majority of his loses (19)(out of 200) were at the end and as I said no one stopped him. Great fighters like Louis, LoMatta, Charles, Moore, Ali, Holmes etc. all got stopped when they fought on beyond their best!
Enough with you, you bore me! nite kids! Ray.

Like he was against Maxim..

It is'nt a crime to have the opinion he was a better ww than he was a mw, or a better mw than he was a lthvt. Lost to less talented fighters with inferior techniques in the later two divisions, so fact is, he was his best at 147.. Still an atg mw, and so were Greb, Monzon and Hagler, but you're clearly blinkered by nuthuggery where Robinson's concerned.

Ah! Mickey and Ray I see you've met each other Carry on :hah9:

Poet

[mickey malone]

nuthuggery is for the gobber fans like yourself! I have no problem giving props to the most talented fighter that the sport of boxing has ever had! That being said your welcomed to have your own opinions but your not welcomed to change the vanacular used in the sport to suit your needs!
If you enter a post on a boxing forum and use terms without actually knowing their meaning and someone corrects you just say thanks!
Fact is he was the same at Middleweight the competition was better thats all!
The vast majority of his loses (19)(out of 200) were at the end and as I said no one stopped him. Great fighters like Louis, LoMatta, Charles, Moore, Ali, Holmes etc. all got stopped when they fought on beyond their best!
Enough with you, you bore me! nite kids! Ray.

Suit my needs?.. Well in case you hav'nt noticed, this is my thread, and correcting people with comments like, 'Hello!' and, 'Get it!' may suit your needs, but it's just an abrasive form of arrogance imo, and the fact you expect to be thanked for it, not only amuses me, but kind'a proves my point at the same time.
Wind yer neck in a bit Ray,, and i'm sure we'll get along nicely.