Bombing of Dresden, Germany during WWII - Atrocious War Crime? Or "Necessary Evil"

[Barn]

The crutch of your argument is that the bombing wasn't necessary. Is that not a bit revisionist? How were the allied commanders of the day supposed to know the war would come to a close or how weak Germany truly was and what not?

If there is an answer to this please give me it. I'm not being a smart ass, just asking.

[Rostov Papa]

The crutch of your argument is that the bombing wasn't necessary. Is that not a bit revisionist? How were the allied commanders of the day supposed to know the war would come to a close or how weak Germany truly was and what not?

If there is an answer to this please give me it. I'm not being a smart ass, just asking.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of revisionism. I'm NOT a Hitler-lover. He committed his share of atrocities even against the German people. He did, however, bring Germany back to the most powerful nation in Europe within a decade after it had been decimated in WW1 - so he started out good, but good too overzealous, and was still trying to settle old scores from WWI. So I just want to clarify that... I just think a lot of what we are told is typical "victor's propaganda." Why would we admit that the bombing of Dresden was to punish Germany? That would detract from our moral upper-hand (and for the most part, I do believe the allies were in teh right).

The Germans communications code had been cracked for over a year, and they knew the Germans were all but done. There was attempts to surrender from other officials in the Reich to the allies.

I think the bombing was to punish Germany. To punish the weakest, most vulnerable, and those who did not partake in the war, or war efforts.

Do you know the timeline of the War? By the time it was bombed, the Germans were in full retreat mode to defend Berlin. Germans were in full retreat mode.

Of course the allies knew it. Full surrender, and Hitler's suicide was only months away at this point. The entire European theatre of the war was confined to Germany at this point.

The only thing Dresden was useful for, was hospitalizing the wounded, adn refugees.

Germany was all but decimated at this point. Her logistical support lines - everything. Berlin was a month away from being all but taken and destroyed.

[Rostov Papa]

Ultimately, I believe the general truth about WW2, and certain aspects surrounding it, lies somewhere in the middle. As with most things.

[Weebler I]

Also, don't you find it odd that challenging the accepted story of what we are told is illegal in many European countries?

They literally throw academics in prison for this.

In USA thank god this isn't the case; but it's gotta be the most taboo subject there is.

I'm going to stop discussing it after this post. I find too many people speak from the heart, rather than with their head on this subject. Because we have been drilled since grade school about this.

Which countries are you talking about? because right now you're speaking to Americans and Britons whose countries don't throw anyone in jail for it.

Anyhow, it's impossible to predict Hitler's plans because he was an unpredictable nut. He was a war vet who wasn't right in the head.

[1bad65]

There's nothing wrong with a bit of revisionism.

No one but you is revising history. I brought up historical facts, as did Paulf. Yet you keep asserting over and over the that others are revising and that the truth is in the middle.

He did, however, bring Germany back to the most powerful nation in Europe within a decade after it had been decimated in WW1 -

Yes, he did. And that was because he was building a huge war machine and the logistics and infrastructure to support it. Those things were great for the German economy.

I just think a lot of what we are told is typical "victor's propaganda."

Dude, the death camps were for real! The Germans bombed cities long before the Allies did. Or are those too cases of revisionism? Hell, Hitler was upfront in Mein Kampf when he said Germany was going to conquer the East for 'living space'. Well since those areas were already populated, what in the world do you think he was proposing even back then?

The Germans communications code had been cracked for over a year, and they knew the Germans were all but done. There was attempts to surrender from other officials in the Reich to the allies.

You're going to have to prove that assertion about the code being cracked. I know we cracked military codes (Enigma, for example), but I'm not sure we cracked the codes the politicians used.

As to offers to surrender from other officials, that is moot. Only those running Germany could authorize a German surrender.

I think the bombing was to punish Germany.

And that's you r opinion. But as this thread has shown, the facts do not agree with your opinion.

Do you know the timeline of the War? By the time it was bombed, the Germans were in full retreat mode to defend Berlin. Germans were in full retreat mode.

False as well. Hitler was well known for his "no retreat" orders. He was adamant about fighting for every inch of ground. Up to his final days, Hitler was still demanding German units not retreat, and in some cases they were ordered to go on the offensive!

Of course the allies knew it. Full surrender, and Hitler's suicide was only months away at this point. The entire European theatre of the war was confined to Germany at this point.

False again. For example, Prague was not liberated until after the official surrender.

The only thing Dresden was useful for, was hospitalizing the wounded, adn refugees.

Again, opinion. And earlier facts were presented showing that was false.

[paulf]

YOu know how hard it is to occupy territory you've conquered? Much less continue to "conquer the world"? Much less with pissed of Russians.

It is indeed, but he wasn't planning on doing the that. Hitler was going to greatly reduce the populations of all the countries he had annexed under Germany's "protection," to the point of drawing up specific percentage charts of what original populations would be exterminated, with the remainder begin left to serve the German-blooded population who replaced them.

Here is the chart, Generalplan Ost, which was originally drawn up in 1940 and officially issued April 27, 1942.

Poles 80-85%
Russians 50-60%
Belarusians 75%
Ukrainians 65%
Lithuanians 85%
Latvians 50%
Estonians 50%
Czechs 50%
Latgalians 100%

Look at that chart. I don't know who or what has been telling you stuff about Hitlers plan, but anyone who told you Hitler just wanted to reclaim a little territory was the one feeding you nonsense.

And your mentioning on "BS" universities perpetuate about Hitler alarms me. Absolutely no accredited western university's history department is going to teach anything that is not 100% fact-supported, peer reviewed material. High school textbooks might be full of nationalist bias, sure, but not university. World War II was not a thousand years ago, where we have limited information about the losers of the war with which to draw our own picture; we have all the information required to paint an accurate picture without using our imaginations.

I'm sure there are urban legends, myths, and fallacies about Hitler accepted in everyday conversation about Hitler, but absolutely none of that makes it's way into university, that's why it's called "higher" education... they teach facts.

[betmen]

Check your facts - the US played a large role in the bombing of Dresden. In fact, it was only US and British bombers and bombs used, if I'm not mistaken.

Of course U.S play big role in the bombing, U.S is the dominant force of the allied but that doesn't mean other countries have no part of it.

And you post about several high ranking officer in the nazi are ready to surrender and the allied know about this but taht doesn't mean **** because Hitler still alive, Hitler will not surrender. the high ranking officer who oppsing hitler now this that's why they try to assasinate him several time. but hitler still survive.

[Welsh Jon]

I can understand the arguement that the Dresden bombings were unnecessary. I can understand the arguement that they were actually a war crime. I can not understand the arguement that Adolf Hitler and the Nazis weren't as bad as history has remained them. They truly were every inch as bad as all that.

You can argue that Soviet Russia was just as bad or even worse. But that doesn't change the fact that Nazi Germany HAD to be stopped.

[lefthook2daliva]

I'm gonna cut to the chase here.

There is no moral equivalency between the Allies and the Axis.