Comments Thread For: Valuev: Wladimir Could Dump WBA Belt in Povetkin Mess

[JAB5239]

I am discussing boxing, specifically the psychology of a guy who decides it's his life's work to hang around BOXING forums trying to debunk two fighters he hates.

Jealousy is a b*tch.

You should start by pointing out a single thread where I ever said I hated them. I can point out many where I've applauded and complimented them. Of course to you, if you're not on your kneed slobbering in Klit ****, than you're a hater!

[The Nephilim]

You should start by pointing out a single thread where I ever said I hated them. I can point out many where I've applauded and complimented them. Of course to you, if you're not on your kneed slobbering in Klit ****, than you're a hater!

I can tell you're so very objective about them from your avatar, Fat Joe 52.

And from your ongoing crusade against them on a number of boxing forums around the net.

Your pretense of objectivity in their case is laughable.

As is your longing for "debate."

In fact, you're the biggest troll around, and I mean BIG.

[JAB5239]

I can tell you're so very objective about them from your avatar, Fat Joe 52.

And from your ongoing crusade against them on a number of boxing forums around the net.

Your pretense of objectivity in their case is laughable.

As is your longing for "debate."

In fact, you're the biggest troll around, and I mean BIG.

If that's the case than why not just ignore me? Why is it you feel the need to follow me to not only other boxing forums, but to stalk my Facebook page? I talk boxing whether you like it or not. All you do is talk about me. You don't see how pathetic and derranged that is?

[cupocity303]

I agree with that. But you're basing the greatness of this current crop on the greatness of the Klitschkos. The competition they have faced does not stack up with the competition Ali faced, Lennox, but is on par or slightly below Tyson's. Now, it's not about head2head but about levels. Take away the 2 brothers and you have one sorry HW division.

Or you have the Golden Era of competitive fights. But I agree that perception is reality. Since the perception is that the Division is crap, that's the reality.

However this is a forum for discussion and debate, and some of us are here to challenge those perceptions and break commonly held views. I don't agree that this is the best era like the other guy; but I think that the Ali, Louis, Marciano, Dempsey type era's get overrated a lot, and the Klitschko era gets underrated at the same time, to build this phony gap of how apart they are. In reality they much closer.

[cupocity303]

It's funny you pick up Chuvalo, because he's not even considered a great win for Ali. But he was tough as old boots. But keep looking at boxrec to back yourself. Everyone knows you don't have any idea what you are talking about. The likes of Ali, Norton, Frazier, Cooper, Foreman, Holmes are all time greats. The only ones you could say that about in this crop is the two brothers. But they aren't fighting anyone that gives them competition. Sure, you can mention the "unbeaten" things. But how good was Wach? Who did he beat? McBride 10 years past his prime? who did Solis beat? Fighting piddy pad records does nothing. They don't have a single great win on their combined record - admittedly not through their own fault, but that's how it is nevertheless. Haye and perhaps Sanders are the two best wins on their combined resume. How does that stack up with Foreman/Frazier twice/Norton/Cooper?

I hope we see a memorable Wlad-Thompson trilogy or perhaps they call mormeck in for a rematch? Ooh, wait - maybe James Toney gets his shot so you can say they beat another former "world champion".

If you're gonna do this Chicken-Egg analogy of microanalyzing of Wachs' resume, you're gonna have to do the same for every opponent of one of your Favorite ATG's.

Who did Joe Frazier beat (besides beating Ali himself of course)? Lets dig through Fraziers record and tell me about the tough bruisers he beat. If we use your style, in retrospect we could say that Ali did was beat a undefeated guy who won a vacant Title(of course he first lost to Frazier before beating him) . Just one example.

Of course there is a much smaller window of opportunity in the Heavyweight Division to build up your record prior to facing the Heavyweight Champion, unless you're a Weight climber and have a great LIght-Heavy and Cruiserweight resume that you're bringing into a Heavyweight Title fight. Alexander just may improve his resume because he is not facing Wlad, which might make Wlad's win over him look better in the future (of course by that time, Alexander may be past his best physically but on paper he would have a much better record). It's all subjective.

With that said, i still agree that Ali's resume is better but that has nothing to do with who I would pick in a prime for prime, Ali vs Wlad fight (which would be Wlad, but that's for another thread).

Wow. Frazier created a type of boxing style. He made the crossarm defence and had one of the most wicked left hooks you can ever hope to see. And you belittle him also.

This is irrelevant and your high opinion of Frazier, which is again irrelevant.

But how can Wlad be considered the best of all times - he's been KO'd brutally 3 times + has hit the canvas 11 or so times. Is it because Purity, Peter, Brewster, Sanders were THAT great? I don't think so son. Have one of these

No Wlad on paper is not the Greatest. But aren't we demanding too much perfection from a guy who is perfect roughly 90% of the time, by winning every minute of every round en route to a TKO victory over most of his opponents? 60 wins with 3 losses.

I guess 63 wins and 0 losses would look better but hey. And no, Peter, Brewster and Sanders are not great but it does make them very good fighters to be one of the few to do what the did. Their records also don't show "bum" as they had a high percentage of wins to only a few losses, which makes them quality fighters. Since then Wlad has gotten even better though, and nearly perfected his tall-man style of fighting, and has become more conservative and not waste more energy than needed with his 6'6, 250 frame (a la Vs Ross Purrity).

[The Nephilim]

If that's the case than why not just ignore me? Why is it you feel the need to follow me to not only other boxing forums, but to stalk my Facebook page? I talk boxing whether you like it or not. All you do is talk about me. You don't see how pathetic and derranged that is?

I respond to a small number of your incredibly high volume of Klitschko hating comments on boxing forums.

You stalk both the Klitschkos and their fans around the internet, so your whining here is also laughable.

Pot - kettle - black.

[cupocity303]

Where have I stated the greatness of Ali anywhere? That's not what we're discussing. But the fact that you belittle a great champion like Larry Holmes who made 20+ defences of his HW titles and went 48-0 proves just how much you know about boxing. Especially since you are comparing him to Wladimir's opponents.

Larry Holmes, the guy who squeaked by a guy to become Heavyweight Champ, who left his prime in Ali's 70's era, in Ken Norton? See how that works.

The same Holmes who took on a parkinson's effected Ali to get a name on his record. The same Holmes that boosted his resume by beating a manufactured white hope "White Hype" opponent that America can root for.

Ironically, Holmes' era also wasn't looked at as much better than the one today. He is more known for amount of title defenses than a streak of wins against prime, championship opponents (the criteria you use against Wlad), which is great. In the end, he got defeated by a Light-Heavyweight (which might make Tyson's win look better on paper, but what does it say about Holmes that he lost to a guy that Tyson Ko'd in 1 round). Again, all subjective mumbo jumbo but it works both ways. A lot of Revisionism about past era's.

[The Nephilim]

Larry Holmes, the guy who squeaked by a guy to become Heavyweight Champ, who left his prime in Ali's 70's era, in Ken Norton? See how that works.

The same Holmes who took on a parkinson's effected Ali to get a name on his record. The same Holmes that boosted his resume by beating a manufactured white hope "White Hype" opponent that America can root for.

Ironically, Holmes' era also wasn't looked at as much better than the one today. He is more known for amount of title defenses than a streak of wins against prime, championship opponents (the criteria you use against Wlad), which is great. In the end, he got defeated by a Light-Heavyweight (which might make Tyson's win look better on paper, but what does it say about Holmes that he lost to a guy that Tyson Ko'd in 1 round). Again, all subjective mumbo jumbo but it works both ways. A lot of Revisionism about past era's.

Excellent post -- Green K time.

Funny how they don't realize that anybody can play this game of belittling almost any fighter.

Don't even get me started on Marciano.

The past was never as good as it seems to be in retrospect, and the present is never as bad as many nostalgists deem it to be at the time.

This game of pitting fighters from different eras against each other to try to belittle either of them has really become very tiresome.

[Simurgh]

H2H Wlad vs Holmes, Wlad all day every day!

[cupocity303]

I never create these threads, I don't sport a Klitschko shrine of signature pics in my avatar, but I always check in and participate in them. Well not always. I'm more of a Lounge guy these days.

I wasn't always a Wlad fan. He earned my respect and higher opinion, and appreciation.