Marciano, Walcott and Charles

[Johnny heard]

3 heavyweight champions who weighed no more than 185 pound that makes them small cruiserweights today and probably with day before weigh in maybe even light heavyweights, can anyone on here explain to me, let's say win me over that they would be able to beat the likes of super sized heavyweights Lennox Lewis, riddick bowe, vitali and wladmir? Is there much of a chance? I think they would just be destroyed way to small, but can u change my view on this?

[bklynboy]

3 heavyweight champions who weighed no more than 185 pound that makes them small cruiserweights today and probably with day before weigh in maybe even light heavyweights, can anyone on here explain to me, let's say win me over that they would be able to beat the likes of super sized heavyweights Lennox Lewis, riddick bowe, vitali and wladmir? Is there much of a chance? I think they would just be destroyed way to small, but can u change my view on this?

They would have trouble with top-skilled big heavyweights such as those you mentioned but I think they would have little trouble with all the other contenders in the past 20 years.

How big was Tyson and Tua? Both were about 5'10", 5'11", the same height as Marciano. Charles and Walcott were a little taller. And they did very well. So, height is not the issue. Nor is reach (although Marciano did have T-rex arms) Walcott and Charles had greater reaches than Tyson and Tua.

So - it comes to weight and fighting styles.

Punching power is not equal to weight alone (although being bigger helps you take a punch). Skinny pitchers in baseball throw as hard as muscled up pitchers. There was this golfer, a skinny little 175 pound guy who launched missiles. They even changed golf courses around to try to negate this guy's power. Over the years this golfer (Tiger Woods) filled out, put on muscle, but did his drives improve? Nope. Greater weight and muscle does not equal more power.

The style back then called for greater movement, more feints and greater endurance over 15 rounds. If you think that Frazier, Tyson and Tua could do well in today's era than Marciano would as well. Would Marciano bulk up? Maybe. Today's trainers would want him to do that. However rather than solely thinking about bringing yesterday's fighters into the present it's also interesting thinking about what would happpen if we brought today's fighers back to yesteryear.

Bring WK back to 1952 and he would be DQed for holding and forced to throw punches to keep Marciano off him. The Emmanuel Stewart style of keeping his head high and back out of reach would mean his body and (and then arms) would get a beating.

One last thing you have to ask yourself something - does the 30-40 pounds of fat on Arreola help his punching power? The mass is slightly greater but the speed/acceleration would be less as well as the timing.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I think vs skilled big men like lennox. bowe, wlad, they would struggle badly..

vs just big guys like micheal grant, tyson fury, they win and most likely in dominant fashion...

[Felix25]

3 heavyweight champions who weighed no more than 185 pound that makes them small cruiserweights today and probably with day before weigh in maybe even light heavyweights, can anyone on here explain to me, let's say win me over that they would be able to beat the likes of super sized heavyweights Lennox Lewis, riddick bowe, vitali and wladmir? Is there much of a chance? I think they would just be destroyed way to small, but can u change my view on this?

Im no historian - but I cant believe that 60 years ago there were 185 lbs boxers who could "hang" with the 4 modern super-heavyweights you mention. I dont see how that is possible!

[BattlingNelson]

They would be huge underdogs thats for sure. They all had great skillsets in their own way, that ensures that a fight would not be a foregone conclusion.

Take Marciano for instance. He was a superb infighter and had a vicious bodyattack. When getting into close combat, height and reach is certainly not an advantage.

Another thing is that size is not the end all be all statistic. History has plenty of examples of smaller guys beating up giants.

[bklynboy]

Im no historian - but I cant believe that 60 years ago there were 185 lbs boxers who could "hang" with the 4 modern super-heavyweights you mention. I dont see how that is possible!

The fight game has changed tremendously and it's very difficult to compare eras. I would place Marciano, Walcott, and Charles as underdogs against Lewis, Bowe, VK, WK and others BUT what rules do we play by?

WK, if he went back to 1951, would not be allowed to jab-jab-clinch. He would start getting points deducted; then be DQed and then they would have to fight again.

Lewis would probably beat Marciano - but not because Marciano is 185. Marciano could easily put on 15 pounds of muscle and walk into the fight at 210.

We have gone the way of "weight is better" so much so that fat, overly muscled heavyweights is now considered normal, good, modern and better. I disagree with that.

[Ben Bolt]

WK, if he went back to 1951, would not be allowed to jab-jab-clinch. He would start getting points deducted; then be DQed and then they would have to fight again.

I believe that if today's Wlad had been around in the 1950s, he would probably have been considered as a non-human, more like an unbeatable robot.

As time goes by, history tends to improve each champion's reputation, and I presume also the Klitschkos will fall into that category later on.

And in the future, we will likely see even stronger, bigger fighters.

Well, yes, Ezzard is one of my favorites - but for his sake, I'm glad Wlad popped up in another era.
Still, Ezzard, Jersey Joe and Marciano were the best of their time. And no one can take that away from them.

[Ray Corso]

....its not the size of the dog in the fight...rather the size of the fight in the dog


There are NO fighters today who bring the determination and willingness to win to a title fight the way Charles, Marciano or Walcott did. Just look at the contenders and how they fight in the chances to win a title. In ANY weight class!! The vast majority are happy to go the distance, collect their pay and go back to being a top ten contender.
Look at Wlads last 4 opponents, they did try, I know they have limited talents but when you fight for the title your supposed to put your ballz down and try.
That's what separates the 3 gentleman mentioned above to the current contenders.

As for the fantasy match ups lets bring the current guys back to 1949+ and measure out 15 rounds and see what the current guys do when the look across the ring at Marciano jamming his fists deeper into his gloves and "licking his lips" excited about his fight.

The contenders today and champions can fight twice and earn a great deal of money, win or loose. Back in the day you fought LIVE and if you carried on like Wlad does he would NOT be on live cards that had meaning. He would be booed out of the ring and the matchmakers couldn't use him. He would have to go the gym and put time in with contenders and prove himself as a worth "real" contender!

Send these guys back to Marciano and Louis and Dempsey in their time. Let them bring the fight because if they don't none of them have the skills to back off or move laterally to win against the Rock. Marciano was a ****ing animal and that's something todays fans have no concept of! Charles and Walcott could have a tuff time with the big guys because they don't have the body attack that the Rock brings.
These articles about Marciano by Ali after they did the mock fantasy fight and read what Ali said.
Marciano said that Ali was a "nice kid" but he would have "killed him"!
Now he didn't say that originally to an interviewer he said it to Dundee and Dundee said that he meant it!!! Dundee told people that Ali was getting hurt because Rock was going under & over rib areas like he would in a fight and even pulling his shots they still hurt Ali.
In the last 20 years only Lewis has a shot, possibly Bowe but Bowe would need to be "perfect" not just prime! Wlad and Vitali get stopped no doubt in my mind! They don't bring that animal instinct and Rocky's power will bust them up badly! Rocky fought two great fighters in Walcott and Charles, Wlad fought a good Lewis and got stopped, he's never fought a great fighter and was stopped again by an average fighter when compared to the greats.
No offense to the Klitz bros I do think they bring heart and a willingness but not like the ATG did, I see it in their eyes when their winning, surviving and loosing! When you look into Marciano's eyes during his fights you see nothing
no expression no idea if he's winning or loosing all you see is determination to break down his opponent. When the conditioning is done it becomes a mental
competition and that's when the old ATG's excel.
Ray Corso

[lazy]

Guys like Walcott would be alot bigger if they fought today with all the enhancements today's heavyweights have. We live in the steroid age and unfortunately the size does not make them better, punch harder or take a shot better.

[Ben Bolt]

I'm in the belief that size does matter - if the big one is a skilled one, and we must admit the Klitschkos are skilled.

There is a reason we have accepted the cruiserweight division. For ex., I think we're vastly underestimating the power of Wlad's jab. How boring we ever find his fights - but his 225 lbs. jab really hurts, according to his opponents.

"A good big man beats a good little man" ain't a phrase that declines the good little man, but just an expression of that he is up against the odds.