Why is Jack Johnson a top ten heavyweight?

[larryx]

because he broke the racial barriers and was the first black man who could legally kick a white mans ass and get paid for it..you know what he had to deal with during those times...respect is due

[Steak]

I have read a few books on Johnson and seen some of his fights, I don't really have a top 10 heavyweight list how are we supposed to judge him fairly compared to other more recent fighters the rules were different which has an effect on style but there is also to little footage to compare him with say Ali who's fights are very easy to get hold of, I have read a lot of reports about fights in the past and then found after watching them my self i have a different view on it. So although books, news papers of the time, first hand reports and video clips give us a good incite into fighters of that time we cant fully judge them imo.

no one actually agreed with one another in that time anyway. I mean, look at this.

Atlanta Constitution reported a win for Jeannette, after he was given three minutes to recover from a low blow in the first round, Trenton Evening Times felt the blow in the first round wasn't a foul at all, but a blow to the pit of the stomach, and that in fact Johnson beat Jeannette twice that evening, once by knockout, the other time on points. Report carried in the Calgary Daily Herald supported the foul having been committed in round 1 and said Jeannette outpointed and outpunched the bigger man.

what in the hell am I supposed to make of this fight? Whos telling the truth? and why are old time fighters like McVea, Jess Willard and Jack Sharkey in the Hall of Fame, while someone like Tyson WONT be in the HOF?

Who are the best "prime heavies" Johnson beats should be the question and answer. Those that know also know the list to be fairly undistinguished: Fireman Flynn, Frank Moran, Black Bill, Frank Childs, Sandy Ferguson, and of course Tommy Burns who was the shortest and 2nd lightest heavyweight champ in history, more on the scale of a smallish LH.

thats what I try to go by too.

Seems to me like you are trying to persuade that Johnson wasn't a top 10 great heavyweight rather than learn about Johnson( which would be best). That's why i had to call it a day.

Ive learned about Johnson. This discussion is about if Johnson is a top ten heavyweight or not. what else do you want me to talk about? I threw out ten names that I think should be above Johnson, and so far only one person has responded to that(thanks JAB).

[JAB5239]

** Ketchell did fight Langford as a teaser to their title fight. Unfortunately Ketchell is shot in the back months later and adios title match.

Any info on why the first fight wasn't a sanctioned title fight?

Langford also fights Walcott in what is supposed to be a defense of Walcott's welt title, but historians ain't accepting it as a title fight, supposedly because of the weights. Since it's recorded as a draw, there is little impetus to go further, though one could hope for a change in status for the future.

I couldn't find a record of the weights, but if you don't meet the contracted weight, its not a title fight. That said, I hadn't realized that fight was supposed to be a title fight.

As to how Johnson gets a title fight, he was better established as a heavy than Langford at the time and found some backing that met Burn's guarantee for the fight, the right place at the right time kind of thing. Sorta like McNeely getting the call for Tyson's post prison debut.

I will respectfully disagree here. Johnson had been chasing a title shot before Burns had ever become champion and followed Tommy halfway around the world to get one. I think it was hardly a being in the right place at the right time sort of thing.

Burns had agreed to meet Langford before Johnson, but Langford couldn't raise the money in France before Burns sets sail in his world title defense tour. Meanwhile, Johnson is in England, gets some backing with the official Brit boxing org with a supposed signed contract to make Langford his first defense in England if he beats Burns.

Fortified, Johnson sails to catch Burns in Australia where Burns reportedly raises his guarantee. Miraculously, Johnson finds a new manager to put him over the top and fight made. Johnson renegs on his promise to defend against Langford, stiffs his new manager after a row over money, and sails to Vancouver for his homecoming.

Johnson may not have been able to stay in every "white" hotel, but he does stay in many "white" hotels as he tested and found the ones which would accept him. In fact, he famously busts the color line at the biggest cathouse in the US which was nothing but a private men's hotel for the wealthy.

I think we can both agree that that had more to do with money, than equality.

Good stuff, my man. I respect your knowledge even if I don't agree with it all.

[Southpaw16BF]

[TheGreatA]

what in the hell am I supposed to make of this fight? Whos telling the truth? and why are old time fighters like McVea, Jess Willard and Jack Sharkey in the Hall of Fame, while someone like Tyson WONT be in the HOF?

I'm pretty sure Tyson will end up being in the hall of fame. He isn't eligible yet but he will probably be inducted soon.

McVea, Willard and Sharkey are listed there as old timers, those who had an impact on boxing and helped make the sport what it is today.

[JAB5239]

I'm pretty sure Tyson will end up being in the hall of fame. He isn't eligible yet but he will probably be inducted soon.

McVea, Willard and Sharkey are listed there as old timers, those who had an impact on boxing and helped make the sport what it is today.

If he stays out of trouble He'll get in no later than his second year of eligability in my opinion. Tyson is an icon, no way they keep him out.

[-Hyperion-]

because old fighters are overrated as all fuc'k???......

[Davros?]

** Ketchell did fight Langford as a teaser to their title fight. Unfortunately Ketchell is shot in the back months later and adios title match.

I had some Ketchell middleweight fights on DVD he was a very good fighter who's career would have been much better had he not been shot, I lost the DVD though which has annoyed me lol.

[Ascended]

Only crazy people have him ranked top 20 he was trash