Ali or Louis. Wh

[joseph5620]

I could actually see Liston beating Louis.

Not the Ali version of course but, the Williams version could cause ****loads of problems.

However apart from that I see no problems there to be honest. Sure there would be hard fights with them but, nothing Louis cannot handle in my opinion.

I could too. Liston's Jab, Power,and chin would have caused major problems for Louis IMO. I wish they came along in the same era. The two actually became good friends after Louis retired.

[The Surgeon]

I could too. Liston's Jab, Power,and chin would have caused major problems for Louis IMO. I wish they came along in the same era. The two actually became good friends after Louis retired.

I read a Great article on the pair's friendship, i'll try and look it out when i get the chance actually as its worth posting.

[Barn]

I could too. Liston's Jab, Power,and chin would have caused major problems for Louis IMO. I wish they came along in the same era. The two actually became good friends after Louis retired.

I didn't know that, thanks.

I think most fellow pro's liked Liston and sometimes I wish I was around to be a fan back in the day.

I would like to think I would have met him as he came off the plane with the belt.

[Tiozzo]

By beating the best fighters. It's that simple. Your comments about "head hunting" are just stupid. Bonevena was a tough fighter who knocked Frazier down twice. Ali was the only fighter to stop him and it was after a long layoff. If you don't think Ali's wins over Foreman and Frazier were impressive than you don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple.



Also, Foreman threw every punch in the book at Ali's body. Ali focused on Foreman's head. How did that fights turn out?

it's not stupid

you think it's stupid, there is a difference

and your argument about Foreman-Ali is lame, very lame

Foreman fought stupid, he threw everything he had because he thought he could be macho and destroy Ali since he was standing right in front of him, and of course he probably was forced to go to the body more than he wanted to because of the famous rope a dope

here goes your lame argument

and during his career, Ali took a big part of his punishment to the body

Norton worked that body, Frazier worked that body, and they both beat Ali

there's nothing quite as beautiful and effective in boxing as a crushing punch to the body

going to the body is crucial, you people trying to dismiss that is a bad joke really

[joseph5620]

it's not stupid

you think it's stupid, there is a difference

and your argument about Foreman-Ali is lame, very lame

Foreman fought stupid, he threw everything he had because he thought he could be macho and destroy Ali since he was standing right in front of him, and of course he probably was forced to go to the body more than he wanted to because of the famous rope a dope

here goes your lame argument

and during his career, Ali took a big part of his punishment to the body

Norton worked that body, Frazier worked that body, and they both beat Ali

there's nothing quite as beautiful and effective in boxing as a crushing punch to the body

going to the body is crucial, you people trying to dismiss that is a bad joke really

Exactly my point. Foreman "was forced" because Ali outsmarted him with a superior strategy. And don't start making lame excuses about how Foreman fought because it worked for him in 40 straight fights and he was favored to win. He wasn't going to outbox Ali and he fought in the way that he always fought. Pure aggression. Foreman's body punches didn't work out for him against Ali. Ali's head shots did work which destroys your theory, that body punches are the end all and be all of greatness.


Different fighters use different strategies. But the only one that matters are the one's that work. And Ali's worked for him. Yeah Norton and Frazier worked the body but they also lost fights to Ali too. So don't pretend that Ali never beat them. In fight 3 with Frazier it was Ali who came on late to stop Frazier. Not the other way around. And Frazier hammered Ali's body a lot in that fight. Even if you believe Ali lost the third fight to Norton he did beat him in fight two and he didn't do it with body punches.


Body punches are great but when ranking a fighters greatness it should be based on his results. Not your subjective view on what type of punches you think he should have used more.

[joseph5620]

I read a Great article on the pair's friendship, i'll try and look it out when i get the chance actually as its worth posting.

Yeah, before Liston's fight with Ali, Louis was behind Liston and Sugar Ray Robinson backed Ali. There is a point in the press conference where Ali goes through his poems and Liston laughs and Joe Louis whispers something in Liton's ear and Listons cracks up which is really something rare to see with Liston. I'll try to find it.

[Tiozzo]

Exactly my point. Foreman "was forced" because Ali outsmarted him with a superior strategy. And don't start making lame excuses about how Foreman fought because it worked for him in 40 straight fights and he was favored to win. He wasn't going to outbox Ali and he fought in the way that he always fought. Pure aggression. Foreman's body punches didn't work out for him against Ali. Ali's head shots did work which destroys your theory, that body punches are the end all and be all of greatness.


Different fighters use different strategies. But the only one that matters are the one's that work. And Ali's worked for him. Yeah Norton and Frazier worked the body but they also lost fights to Ali too. So don't pretend that Ali never beat them. In fight 3 with Frazier it was Ali who came on late to stop Frazier. Not the other way around. And Frazier hammered Ali's body a lot in that fight. Even if you believe Ali lost the third fight to Norton he did beat him in fight two and he didn't do it with body punches.


Body punches are great but when ranking a fighters greatnes it should be based on his results. Not your subjective view on what type of punches you think he should have used more.

I never said that, you're being silly

[Sugarj]

I don't see Holmes or Foreman being as big a problem stylistically but, that's just my own personal opinion.

With Foreman, it wouldn't really be a stylistic issue. Its simply because prime George hits that hard and has height, reach, weight advantages and is so dangerous in the early rounds. Louis was not that elusive, he would take some frightening shots. Granted Louis might well recover from the storm and catch a tired fading Foreman late, but I wouldn't bet on the match.

With Holmes it would be a stylistic issue. Louis didn't ever look good against movers and against Holmes he'd have to deal with a guy with a telescopic reach as well as other physical advantages. Holmes would be a tougher task than Farr, Conn or Walcott. Louis again might well catch Holmes down the stretch, but its a very tough call. Holmes was a tough sod to knock out and I could see him taking quite an early points lead. Again, not a fight I'd bet on.

In a series of fights I could see these guys each taking wins over Louis.

[joseph5620]

I never said that, you're being silly

Translation: "I have no counter point."



And yes you did say that.

how can you be the greatest when you're a head hunter, as successful as you might be ? body punching is so ****in damn important

Don't embarrass yourself by denying what everybody can read.

[Barn]

With Foreman, it wouldn't really be a stylistic issue. Its simply because prime George hits that hard and has height, reach, weight advantages and is so dangerous in the early rounds. Louis was not that elusive, he would take some frightening shots. Granted Louis might well recover from the storm and catch a tired fading Foreman late, but I wouldn't bet on the match.

With Holmes it would be a stylistic issue. Louis didn't ever look good against movers and against Holmes he'd have to deal with a guy with a telescopic reach as well as other physical advantages. Holmes would be a tougher task than Farr, Conn or Walcott. Louis again might well catch Holmes down the stretch, but its a very tough call. Holmes was a tough sod to knock out and I could see him taking quite an early points lead. Again, not a fight I'd bet on.

In a series of fights I could see these guys each taking wins over Louis.

George doesn't have the defence to stop him walking into Louis' accurate power shots in my opinion.