God, No God, Morals, and Evolution

[rageinme]

Re

An all knowing god knows whats going to happen therefor if he knows whats going to happen then there is no free will because the choices you make are predetermined, If there was free will you could do some thing that would surprise god but you cant surprise god with something you do because he already knows you are going to do it. You are saying that god knows whats going to happen if you make this choice or if you choose to make that choice.. Well then your getting into alternate realities and every choice would be an alternate of you in a different dimension or something like that. You seem to know a lot about what god can and can't do..have you met the guy/gal? So god is all knowing then he created us knowing that we were going to cause wars, he knew that Hitler was gonna start a mass genocide and that Stalin was gonna kill millions of his generals and people. Knowing all this he still chose to create us and supposed that life is like one of those choose how you end the story books he would know that many weren't gonna follow in his "love" and commit atrocities like that. But god gets "mad" when people do such evils even though he knew it was going to happen.

GOD knew what was gonna happen,but god give's us choices. But by his mercy and grace he gave his son jesus to die on the cross for are wrong doing.Know matter what we do jesus will love us, even when we let him down he will always forgive us, if we ask. And yes I am a cheerleader for jesus.I was born to work for the lord.

[Sin City]

GOD knew what was gonna happen,but god give's us choices. But by his mercy and grace he gave his son jesus to die on the cross for are wrong doing.Know matter what we do jesus will love us, even when we let him down he will always forgive us, if we ask. And yes I am a cheerleader for jesus.I was born to work for the lord.

let me get this right...you believe that Adam and Eve sinned right? Because they sinned we have to pay for it? If you commit a crime...should your child have to pay for it? Imagine if it was like that in a court of law. Anyway god punishes all their descendants and them for about 4000 years
(how is this a forgiving benevolent being??)
For about 4000 years humanity carried gods punishment or so called "original sin" then after several thousand years god finally decides to forgive us..
(4000 years is a long time to hold a grudge! don't you think??)
So supposedly gods plan to forgive us..is to have his specially born son purposefully torchered and killed.... . .and only then will he forgive us... uuhhh??? So gods plan to forgive us after punishing us for over 4000 years is to send his son down to the earth and have us purposefully torcher and kill him. What kind of loving benevolent being would want his innocent son torchered and killed to forgive someone else??? doesn't sound like a loving father to me! Why would a kind loving god even require that? why not just forgive us....after 4000 years?? God if real real then is insane!! But here is the thing ask yourself if the bible is true...then was Jesus really the son of god???

Ezekial 37:26-28 Says the Messiah was supposed to build the 3rd temple in Jerusalem.
Did jesus build the 3rd temple?...No!
The Islamic Temple is there instead.
Isaiah 2:4 The Messiah will usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression and suffering and disease. There would also be no more wars.....Did he do that..... I believe not!
Isaiah 43:5-6 The Messiah will gather all the Jews back to the land of Israel...Did Jesus do this???...No!
The messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (Gen. 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, Ezekiel 34:23-24)
was he.....NO!
Joseph was not the father of Jesus therefor he was not descended from King David (luke 1:31)
Zachariah 14:9 The messiah will spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel witch will unite humanity as one........I don't think he did that either.

Deutronomy 13:1 (this is a big one) The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah says the law will remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a FALSE PROPHET.

Manny Christians know these short comings of their "Messiah" and try to claim that their man "Jesus" will do all of this next time he shows up.. The only problem is that in the Old Testament (where the prophecies of the Messiah reside) There is no one mention or even the the thought or concept of a second coming.
If Jesus had existed according to the bible, he would have been a FRAUD!!

[Sin City]

lol!! Very nice.


Okay, here's my response to the highlighted areas:


1. Maybe; but that's beyond my comprehension. I do think that each little choice you make can change the world, or at least the immendiate future within your realm of influnce....mulitplied by 6 Billion people, of course. Whether or not there actually are other universes for every choice is moot because you and I are only living in this one....still, very perceptive on your part.

2. Unnecessary question and rhetorical; but allow me to shock you...yes I have, we have tea every other Sunday and he says you need to wash behind your ears more.

3. If your mom or dad were omniscient and knew every mistake you were going to make and knew every time you were going to disobey, would they choose not to have you in the first place and give you a chance?

1.yah true, but if theres multiple universes then I have mutiple souls and alot of them or destended for hell because their destinies are already decided....however if I have on soul but theres multi universes then I can't choose what the other me's do so some of me is going to hell and the other is not?
2. well tell that mutha****er he owes me a dollar!
3. If my son was Hitler and knew what he was going to do....No I would not have him
Do your parents have to help you out..No. But they do.
God doesn't "Have" to help us out.... its not his place but he can, and he doesn't! He is a negligent parent if real!

[K-DOGG]

1.yah true
2. well tell that mutha****er he owes me a dollar!
3. If my son was Hitler and knew what he was going to do....No I would not have him
Do your parents have to help you out..No. But they do.
God doesn't "Have" to help us out.... its not his place but he can, and he doesn't! He is a negligent parent if real!

On Hitler, AYE. I'd a ripped him from the womb with a clotheshanger. ...sorry if that offended anyone; but he was pure evil if such a thing could exist in human form.

Well, technically, he was psychotic; but still, I'm in agreement is my point on that.

As far as whether he helps us out or not, I say he does, it's just not always apparent as to how he does. Just because a cloud of smoke doesn't appear over the White House and throw Bush out of office, don't think God's not around. Once again, apologies for any offense.

Usually, I find, he/she helps through us. Anytime a stranger does something they didn't have to for someone, that's God.....or more specifically, that's the God in him, or God acting through him, or whatever. Of course you could say it's not...like I said, this is what I believe. Other times his "miracles" go unnoticed as a freak coincidence or chance occurence. But, this is all personal interpretation.

Suffice it to say I believe he is still here, he does care, and he will help us if we take steps to help ourselves.

[Sin City]

On Hitler, AYE. I'd a ripped him from the womb with a clotheshanger. ...sorry if that offended anyone; but he was pure evil if such a thing could exist in human form.

Well, technically, he was psychotic; but still, I'm in agreement is my point on that.

As far as whether he helps us out or not, I say he does, it's just not always apparent as to how he does. Just because a cloud of smoke doesn't appear over the White House and throw Bush out of office, don't think God's not around. Once again, apologies for any offense.

Usually, I find, he/she helps through us. Anytime a stranger does something they didn't have to for someone, that's God.....or more specifically, that's the God in him, or God acting through him, or whatever. Of course you could say it's not...like I said, this is what I believe. Other times his "miracles" go unnoticed as a freak coincidence or chance occurence. But, this is all personal interpretation.

Suffice it to say I believe he is still here, he does care, and he will help us if we take steps to help ourselves.

but I thought u said god cant intervien no matter what?? Its not his place. So he can sometimes but can't others?? and I'm still waiting on the multi universe question... If there is and I have on soul then I can't do anything about the other me's and if they do evil or not...does that mean only some of me goes to hell?? or what if all the me's have different souls...I thought a human only had one? And If so then it still is pre-determined because this me was supposed to make this choice and the other was supposed to make that choice so in reality there is no free will.

[Sin City]

On Hitler, AYE. I'd a ripped him from the womb with a clotheshanger. ...sorry if that offended anyone; but he was pure evil if such a thing could exist in human form.

Well, technically, he was psychotic; but still, I'm in agreement is my point on that.

As far as whether he helps us out or not, I say he does, it's just not always apparent as to how he does. Just because a cloud of smoke doesn't appear over the White House and throw Bush out of office, don't think God's not around. Once again, apologies for any offense.

Usually, I find, he/she helps through us. Anytime a stranger does something they didn't have to for someone, that's God.....or more specifically, that's the God in him, or God acting through him, or whatever. Of course you could say it's not...like I said, this is what I believe. Other times his "miracles" go unnoticed as a freak coincidence or chance occurence. But, this is all personal interpretation.

Suffice it to say I believe he is still here, he does care, and he will help us if we take steps to help ourselves.

I know you don't believe the stories in the old testament but do you believe Jesus if real was the "Messiah" read what I posted for Rageinme... He didn't fulfill any of the prophecy..And was not a descendant of David. So if real how can you be so sure this guy was the son of god....I would re-write it but I don't feel like typing that much.

[K-DOGG]

but I thought u said god cant intervien no matter what?? Its not his place. So he can sometimes but can't others?? and I'm still waiting on the multi universe question... If there is and I have on soul then I can't do anything about the other me's and if they do evil or not...does that mean only some of me goes to hell?? or what if all the me's have different souls...I thought a human only had one? And If so then it still is pre-determined because this me was supposed to make this choice and the other was supposed to make that choice so in reality there is no free will.

No, God can do whatever he wants. I said he probably chooses not to because he wants us to work out our own messes. We got ourselves into these messes, God didn't do it....so, we can work our way out. That's what I said.

In answer the the multi-universe question, I'd say there would have to be, logically, mutliple heavens and hells under than scenario.....meaning, wherever you are spiritually in this life, or this dimension, will determine where you end up when you die here.

Also, I don't think your grasping something. You were not destined to make the choices you make; that would be contradictory to free will. You have the power to choose what you do and do not and just because God can see all of those choices, it does not mean that your future and/or fate isn't still in flux. Your fate has not been determined yet. God can just see all of them at once, and the perspectve changes each time you make a decision which is relative to the final outcome.

The Human does have one soul and only one; but if you want to talk about parallell universes, then you have to allow each of the other "yous" to have their own souls so that you are not responsible for their individual fates or they yours.

[K-DOGG]

I know you don't believe the stories in the old testament but do you believe Jesus if real was the "Messiah" read what I posted for Rageinme... He didn't fulfill any of the prophecy..And was not a descendant of David. So if real how can you be so sure this guy was the son of god....I would re-write it but I don't feel like typing that much.

No need. I did read it and was very impressed with your thoroughness. In all honesty, I'm going to have to think on that and get back to you, for such a thorough question, or post, requires a thorough response; and I will give you one, just not at the moment because I honestly haven't thought about that aspect in quite some time. I will get back to you though, promise.

[Sin City]

No need. I did read it and was very impressed with your thoroughness. In all honesty, I'm going to have to think on that and get back to you, for such a thorough question, or post, requires a thorough response; and I will give you one, just not at the moment because I honestly haven't thought about that aspect in quite some time. I will get back to you though, promise.

Its all I ask for... thank you! lol I look forward to the reply!

[rageinme]

rageinme

let me get this right...you believe that Adam and Eve sinned right? Because they sinned we have to pay for it? If you commit a crime...should your child have to pay for it? Imagine if it was like that in a court of law. Anyway god punishes all their descendants and them for about 4000 years
(how is this a forgiving benevolent being??)
For about 4000 years humanity carried gods punishment or so called "original sin" then after several thousand years god finally decides to forgive us..
(4000 years is a long time to hold a grudge! don't you think??)
So supposedly gods plan to forgive us..is to have his specially born son purposefully torchered and killed.... . .and only then will he forgive us... uuhhh??? So gods plan to forgive us after punishing us for over 4000 years is to send his son down to the earth and have us purposefully torcher and kill him. What kind of loving benevolent being would want his innocent son torchered and killed to forgive someone else??? doesn't sound like a loving father to me! Why would a kind loving god even require that? why not just forgive us....after 4000 years?? God if real real then is insane!! But here is the thing ask yourself if the bible is true...then was Jesus really the son of god???

Ezekial 37:26-28 Says the Messiah was supposed to build the 3rd temple in Jerusalem.
Did jesus build the 3rd temple?...No!
The Islamic Temple is there instead.
Isaiah 2:4 The Messiah will usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression and suffering and disease. There would also be no more wars.....Did he do that..... I believe not!
Isaiah 43:5-6 The Messiah will gather all the Jews back to the land of Israel...Did Jesus do this???...No!
The messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (Gen. 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, Ezekiel 34:23-24)
was he.....NO!
Joseph was not the father of Jesus therefor he was not descended from King David (luke 1:31)
Zachariah 14:9 The messiah will spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel witch will unite humanity as one........I don't think he did that either.

Deutronomy 13:1 (this is a big one) The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah says the law will remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a FALSE PROPHET.

Manny Christians know these short comings of their "Messiah" and try to claim that their man "Jesus" will do all of this next time he shows up.. The only problem is that in the Old Testament (where the prophecies of the Messiah reside) There is no one mention or even the the thought or concept of a second coming.
If Jesus had existed according to the bible, he would have been a FRAUD!!

As surely as I live,says the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of wicked people.I only want them to turn from their wicked ways so they can live. Turn! Turn from wickedness...Why should you die ..EZEKIEL 33:11