Rocky Marciano talks Clay, Patterson and fights

[Scott9945]

Yeah maybe the second fight, but what about the first one, where Ali pretty much beat Sonny into submission.

At that time a lot of people thought Sonny quit in his corner because the fight was fixed. Of course that makes no sense to anyone who actually watched that fight. Liston took a beating. But people weren't used to a champion going out that way.

[billeau2]

Yeah maybe the second fight, but what about the first one, where Ali pretty much beat Sonny into submission.

Like Scott says in his post....and again this is what some people think. Liston was rumered to be bought and paid for. Its not my opinion, I frankly could not venture an opinion on either fight regarding a fix...guys like Ray can probably look at those fights and wager a definitive opinion.

I will say this: Lord knows if you catch someone right it can look like you hardly touch them, thats what speed and precision can do and why the naked hand is in many regards a much more precise instrument when not gloved. I remember my teacher showing us a hook kick and just love tapping someone just so...instant ko.

In reference to the second fight, Did Ali do this with a short sweet shot? Well Walcott did it to Charles with a short hook and Ali was faster than Walcott. With a short punch if the arm is not extended too far and the hand is not turned and the connection happens just so, provided the person does not see the shot I think what looks like a very short punch could be quite devistating.

[GeneralZod]

I heard Liston only trained for 4 rounds for the first fight, assuming Clay wouldn't last.

[Anthony342]

So people out there at the time really believed at that point that Ali still hadn't truly proven himself and beaten any top opponents yet? I kind of find that hard to believe. And if so, when DID people start to believe Ali had finally beaten a great opponent?

[rightsideup]

So people out there at the time really believed at that point that Ali still hadn't truly proven himself and beaten any top opponents yet? I kind of find that hard to believe. And if so, when DID people start to believe Ali had finally beaten a great opponent?

Sad to say but politics played into the way people perceived Ali by the time people started to see the War as pointless and when Ali lost courageously to Joe people warmed up to him.

[Scott9945]

So people out there at the time really believed at that point that Ali still hadn't truly proven himself and beaten any top opponents yet? I kind of find that hard to believe. And if so, when DID people start to believe Ali had finally beaten a great opponent?

Believe it or not, there were a lot of people who didn't give Ali the credit (or even stop calling him Clay) until he lost to Frazier. The thought was that he would fold up the first time he faced pressure from a top opponent. He answered all the doubts about his chin and courage in the FOC.

[Anthony342]

So after his exile and the FOTC, good to know.