peak of great fighters

[rightsideup]

name the peaks of the following great fighters.

SRR
harry greb
joe louis
ali
pep
benny leonard
duran
ray leonard
sandy Saddler
archie moore
ezzard charles
Rocky Marciano

[mehoe]

Ali's peak would have been during his exile.
Pep's was before the plane crash.

[danthepoetman]

It’s a great question, rightsideup. And it is precisely what’s so difficult in evaluating fighters of the past: do you consider their peak as the criterion to rate them, or do you considers the whole of the career? The problem of the former is that some fighters have had brilliant peaks, but not much else after. The problem with the latter is that some great fighter have tended to undermine a bit their legacy by hanging around too much and suffering defeats they never should have suffered (wouldn’t the name Roy Jones comes to mind as a recent example? –at his peak everybody was comparing him to Sugar Ray Robinson… And God! what about Tyson?!)

I haven’t thought about an answer to the question yet, but one fighter you didn’t named (probably on purpose, and probably because it’s obvious) is Henry Armstrong. If you consider Armstrong’s 1940 year, and you use it as a criterion for greatness, he might be considered the best ever.

[Nails]

Ali's peak would have been during his exile.
Pep's was before the plane crash.

Greb: 1923 Won Middle title; thrashed Tunney!

[rightsideup]

lets refine this to best performance in one fight.

[danthepoetman]

Rightsideup, your giving a lot to answer! But that’s great! I felt that your first question is still worth answering and I will. I’ll start with 3 fighters. (And later I’ll go with your new question if you don’t mind).
In 1935, on his way to the top, Joe Louis accumulated 11 victories over good to very good contenders, such as Lee Ramage, Natie Brown, King Lewinsky, Paulo Uzcudun, and beat two former world champions, Primo Carnera and Max Baer. I’d say it’s a pretty good year. Yet he probably reached his peak a few years before the war, let’s say between 1938 and 1941. Unfortunatly, the war robed us of his best years –which was far from being the worst about it… I think with Louis, you could even talk about a long 5 years stretch during which he was just impeccable as a fighter. From his defeat to Schmeling in 36 to his call under the flag in 41, he beat Jack Sharkey, Al Ettore, Bob Pastor, Jim Braddock, Tommy Far, Nathan Mann, Schmeling in 1, Galento, tough Argentinian Arturo Godoy, Red Burman, Abe Simon, Buddy Baer, Billy Conn, Lou Nova and others.
For Muhamad Ali it’s simple, from 64 to 67, beating Liston, Williams, Foley (underrated challenger), Chuvalo, Patterson, Cooper, Ernie Terrell, all with incredible ease, except for the rough and fouling Chuvalo.
As to Roberto Duran it’s a bit difficult to select a precise point in this amazing stretch between his defeat to Esteban De Jesus in 1972 (which seems to have made him into a perfect fighting machine) to his defeat against Leonard in the rematch, in 1980. That’s an 8 years stretch undefeated in 3 weight classes! In my opinion, he was at his best as an unbeatable lightweight in the mid to late 70s. Even the old timers of the time, who were constantly talking about Benny Leonard, were convinced along the line that Duran was indeed better.

[Nails]

Ali's "Float like a butterfly..." refrain was best shown in his third round k-o of Cleveland Williams in '66. Williams hardly laid a glove on Ali!

[danthepoetman]

Yes and the next year, he completely outclassed a tough and bigger Ernie Terrell, and befuddled today’s underrated contender Zora Foley until he knocked him out in the 7th. We were deprived of his best years, unfortunately.

[danthepoetman]

It’s somewhat of a challenge to determine the peak of a fighter with a record of 229-11-1 with 65 kos, stretching on a 26 years span. My father loved him; considered him one of the greatests ever. He felt he was the most clever boxer to ever grace the ring. Willy Pep.
I was examining his record in order to answer the question and I realized that he fought, for the first two to three years of his career a considerable bunch of tomato cans. He started fighting much more decent competition in 1942-43, and with great success. He beat Sal Bartolo, all time great Manuel Ortiz, Chalky Wright twice (once for the tittle) but was beaten by Sammy Angott (march 43); in 45-47, beat division champ Phil Terranova, drew with Jimmy McAlister but kayoed him in two rounds a few months later, beat Wright again, good contender Lefty LaChance twice and unified the featherweight crown with a KO12 victory over Sal Bartolo in 46 (Pep had the New York state world champ title; Bartolo the NBA); beat in 48 Humberto Sierra twice, Paddy De Marco, Johnny LaRusso before falling to a gentleman named Sandy Saddler by ko in 4 rounds.
Did he then started slipping? Nope. I wander if he didn’t get better! Beat Saddler in the rematch, beat Johnny LaRusso, a 57-1 Eddie Compo, Charley Riley, Jimmy Warren, outstanding Ray Famechon (59-5) before once again in September of 1950 succumbing to his nemesis Sandy Saddler.
He remained very good after still, but suffered one more loss to Saddler and a defeat now and then along the years (Tommy Collins TKO 6 in 52; Lulu Perez TKO 2 in 54; Tommy Tibbs SD 10 in 55; etc.).

He defended the title successfully 6 times in his 6 years first reign, and 3 in the second, totalling 11 championship fight victories against 3 loses. He remained undefeated for a 5 years and a half period between march 43 and October 48, cumulating 72 victories and a draw (great year in 42, but often weak opposition).
So I guess we could say that his best years were along a seven years stretch between 1943 and 1950. Difficult to be much more precise for me, yet I suppose it’s easy to imagine his very peak in 46, when he accumulated a 17-0 record against good opposition, and unified the crown.