Could Bruce Lee beat a Professional Boxer?

[MysticNinjaJay]

I'd like to revisit the topic of an old thread on Bruce Lee titled, "bruce lee vs any boxer (106lbs to 240lbs)." In the thread a lot of claims were made about the fighting skills of Bruce Lee. There was some praise and doubts. The doubters questioned his fight record and ability. I'd like to address some of the discussions in that thread as well as contribute my own observations to this thread.

Bruce Lee in Boxing



In discussing Bruce Lee vs. a Professional Boxer it is noteworthy to mention that Bruce Lee himself had experience with Western Boxing. Before he came to America Bruce Lee won the 1958 Hong Kong Inter School Boxing Championship. He beat several Boxers including a local 3-time Boxing champion named Gary Elms.

The Bruce Lee Foundation describes the event as follows:

In high school, Bruce, now no longer a weak child, was beginning to hone his body through hard training. One of his accomplishments was winning an interschool Boxing Championship against an English student in which the Marquis of Queensbury rules were followed and no kicking was allowed.


Source: BruceLee.com - Biography

In the older thread a poster named bsrizpac called in to question the authenticity of Bruce Lee's fight record including the existence of Gary Elms.

I'm not arguing. I'm just ASTONISHED that you refuse to read the evidence I have given you and SHOWN that Gary Elms did not exist (or if he did there is no proof).

I love how you'll just ignore that and keep saying Bruce could kill anyone.

Bsrizpac cited a post on the message board Bullshido which states that there is no verification of a Boxing record for Gary Elms nor is there any reference to him that can be found on the internet other than him losing to Bruce Lee. I investigated this claim and discovered that there is at least one eye witness account to the fight itself by a Martial Artist named Rolf Clausnitzer, author of the first English language book on Wing Chun, who claims to have sparred with Bruce Lee and known Gary Elms personally who he says was a classmate at his school.

Here's a quote from an interview with Clausnitzer on the fight:

DP: Lucky for you it wasn't a library book! After that, did you get to see Bruce doing Wing Chun on any other occasion?

RC: Not long after, I was privileged to see Bruce again, not face to face, but in action at the Hong Kong Inter School Boxing Championships. Ironically, his opponent just happened to be good old Gary Elms, one of my schoolmates.

DP: What was Gary Elms like? Did you know him well?

RC: Gary, also nicknamed "Garung", was one of those irrepressible, but likable nuisances. Although he was considerably lighter and smaller, that didn't stop him from pestering me and others. I'd wrestle him to the ground, pinch his nostrils and force grass into his mouth to make him say "Uncle", but he would never submit. As soon as I got up in frustration, he'd jump me again. He was one tough nut.

DP: So, how was their match together? As an eyewitness, what can you say about the fight?

RC: His bout with Bruce turned out to be the most amazing and bizarre boxing match I have ever seen and expect to see. I honestly believe that Gary did not land even one single scoring punch throughout the entire 3 x 1 minute rounds, with Bruce deflecting and taking all of Gary's punches on his arms. Gary was knocked down several times, but he was not knocked out (contrary to what has been reported in various articles and books!) and, even more surprisingly, he did not appear to be hurt or distressed. Each time he was floored, he would immediately jump back up. That's why the referee did not stop the fight. Notwithstanding Gary's extraordinary toughness, I was amazed to see him survive the bout in such good shape. It was not until later when I caught up with Frank that some sort of explanation emerged.

DP: Do you recall what your brother Frank told you about this?

RC: Apparently, when Frank and his friends went to congratulate Bruce after the bout, Bruce was shaking his head and looking far from pleased with himself. His reply to Frank's obvious question was something along the lines of, "Damn it, I couldn't knock the guy out". His rationalisation was that the large (16oz?) gloves neutralised the intended, penetrating effect of tilting the wrist on impact, a practice common to many Wing Chun practitioners (I gather he abandoned this practice in later years). He reckoned that this force was not penetrating the padding and, in any case, Gary was already being propelled backwards from the pushing impact of the glove. He swore that he would continue training until he could achieve the penetration he wanted. He also had his sights set on Peter Burton, a stylish and hard punching boxer from St George's School (which was exclusively for the children of British Armed Forces personnel in Hong Kong), a much bigger and heavier competitor who had TKO'd his opponent in the second round. By the way, Frank and I met Peter (who turned out to be half German as well) at a party a few weeks later and we talked about Bruce, but it's unlikely that such a bout would ever have been approved because of the weight and size differences and, in any case, Bruce left for the USA a few months later to begin a new chapter in his amazing life.

Source: Ving Tsun Musuem - Wing Chun Memories

So Bruce Lee himself competed in Boxing. We have an eye witness account of him winning an amateur Boxing tournament. Bruce Lee did not take Boxing lessons at this time. His training was purely in Wing Chun. Bruce Lee at this time had not yet evolved in to the Bruce Lee of legend whom we are comparing to professional Boxers. His development as a Martial Artist was not complete but it is important to know that he had experience with the Sweet Science.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Bruce Lee encounters an undefeated Heavyweight Boxing champion



In America Bruce Lee had several students. Among them was a man named James Demile who claims to have been an undefeated Heavyweight Boxing champion in the United States Air Force.

Demile describes his first encounter with Bruce Lee as follows:

My first encounter with Bruce was my introduction to humility. I was going to Edison Technical school, in Seattle, which was a school for adults who needed to make up credits to go on to college. I was in between classes and was passing the auditorium and noticed a sign saying “Asian day studies”, which was talks about the different Asian cultures. Curious, I went in and sat far back from the stage. A young oriental guy was leaping around the stage making odd sounds. He would jump high into the air, spin around, make flashing actions with his arms and land in some pose that looked like a Preying Mantis about to attack a bug. This went on for a few minutes with him flying around the stage like a drunk butterfly. Finally, he finished bouncing around and went up to the microphone. He went on to explain what he had just demonstrated was a fighting style called Gung Fu and was practiced throughout China and Hong Kong as a deadly form of self defense. This statement amused me. So when his talk was finished I wandered up to the front by the stage where he was taking to a small group. The group was about 50/50 male/female. I smiled to myself as he was talking in a very animated way about Gung Fu. How, for hundreds of years the peasants had used it to fight the bandits who roamed the countryside attacking villages. They were not allowed weapons so had devised Gung Fu as a way for close quarter combat. At some point he noticed me with what must have been a stupid grin on my face. He smiled slightly and asked if I had any questions. I knew this was a moment to look good in front of an audience so I said in a sarcastic way, “Kid, we don’t fight like bugs over here. Fighting isn’t a dance, it’s serious and someone is going to be hurt”. His smile got a little broader and he said,”No kidding”. He moved towards me and stopped about an arm’s length away. Now picture this. I was about 5ft 10’’ and 220 pounds. Bruce was about 5’ft 7’’ and roughly 135. I was 21 and he 18. Continuing to smile he said, take a punch at me. Now, I had been an undefeated heavyweight boxer in the Air Force and had very quick hands and decided to teach him a lesson, since he was stupid enough to keep his arms down by his side. I thought I would just flick his forehead with a fast jab. I moved into a loose stance and fired a left jab. Bruce’s movements were a blur as my jab was caught up in a cyclone of action. I felt myself being jolted as he flicked my jab aside, caught my other arm, and in a flowing motion planted both arms crossed on my chest like I was dead. In an act of panic I tried to leap back and away from him. He was like a bad smell, I could not get away. No matter how I moved, backwards or side to side, he stayed with me while maintaining pressure on my locked arms. I finally stopped when I hit the edge of the stage. Before he released me he tapped on my forehead and asked, “Is anyone home”. Wow, talk about learning humility the hard way. All I could hear, other than my own heartbeat, was the chuckling from the group. Embarrassment is an understatement. I did not know whether to run to the toilet and flush myself down or try to hit him again. Seeing his smiling face, relaxed and ready for anything, I opted for the toilet. Better yet, I became one of his first students in America.

Source: Wingchundo.com - Biography of James W. DeMile

James Demile was highly impressed by Bruce Lee. There's a video of him stating that he fought Bruce Lee and was easily defeated. He says that in his opinion Bruce Lee could beat any fighter regardless of size or discipline.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Bruce Lee was inspired by The Greatest



Bruce Lee was a fan of Muhammad Ali. According to several sources Bruce Lee studied Boxing film and Ali in particular. Bruce was impressed by his footwork and patterned his movements off of him.



Jeet Kune Do was a Complete Martial Art



Bruce Lee knew a variety of Martial Arts techniques. He studied Wing Chun, Fencing, Boxing, Karate and many other Martial Arts. He believed in learning anything that was useful and stripping away the inessentials. He studied Judo with Gene Lebell and incorporated 33 grappling moves in to Jeet Kune Do.

In a street fight with a Boxer I imagine that Bruce Lee would attack his opponent where he is weakest. A Boxer trains to attack and defend the upper body. Bruce trained to do things such as side kick the knee and strike the groin. There are many ways that he could hurt a Boxer in a fight. I recommend reading the Tao of Jeet Kune Do to see Bruce Lee's notes on fighting.



Also take note of the subtle movements in his movies that show what he was capable of in a fight. Bruce Lee had such a high degree of speed and coordination that some of his moves go unnoticed.

Observations of Bruce Lee from a Boxing Legend



I found this video of Sugar Ray Leonard to be interesting. Leonard credits Bruce Lee as an inspiration. Most notable are his insights on the mental aspects of fighting which he recognized from Bruce Lee. He also remarks on his legendary speed. What Sugar Ray Leonard is suggesting is that Bruce Lee had the athleticism of a world class fighter as well as the mentality.

I think these facts and observations make a good case for Bruce Lee being capable of beating even the most high level of Boxers. Bruce didn't need to compete to prove that he was a great Martial Artist. The way he trained and what he studied indicate that that his skill level was very high. In the older thread the topic starter pasted an interview with Bob Wall which says that Bruce Lee sparred with and defeated Karate world champions. If he was that good surely he could hold his own with Professional Boxers as well.

[Elroy1]

It's ridiculous to think Bruce Lee can beat any elite level pro boxer. He's an actor with a zero professional fight record.

Someone like Don the Dragon Wilson who was not just a martial artist an actor but also has a stellar kickboxing career AND a decent boxing one, sure. But Bruce is a great athlete but that's not the same. He would be good against amateur boxers.

This myth is even more ridiculous than the OTNB myth.

[bojangles1987]

I don't know, being dead is a hard handicap to overcome.

[Suckmedry]

This question has to pop up at least every 6 months

[IronDanHamza]

Absolutely not.

Well, not a top level one atleast. There's nothin what so ever to suggest he could.

[IronDanHamza]

"Including 3 time world Champion Gary Elms"

that one honestly still cracks me up every time.

Anyone ever had a Gary Elms sighting yet? Hardest 3 time Workd Champion to find.

Any actual records or sources of this "Hong Kong Super boxing Event" other than "The Bruce Lee Foundation said so"?

[M Bison]

Bruce Lee would get destroyed, Zou Shiming would beat the snot out of him regardless of weight.

[MysticNinjaJay]

"Including 3 time world Champion Gary Elms"

that one honestly still cracks me up every time.

Anyone ever had a Gary Elms sighting yet? Hardest 3 time Workd Champion to find.

Any actual records or sources of this "Hong Kong Super boxing Event" other than "The Bruce Lee Foundation said so"?

I did post a source from an eye witness to the event. Gary Elms was said to be a local high school amateur Boxing champion so I would not expect to find him on Boxrec as he was not a professional Boxer.